more FAKES

[zookeeperz]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy1977 said:

is it a penny or 2 penny, the add seems a bit confused to me

Is it a jeckyl? It looks like a penny with those trident prongs?. Very convincing the neck is what alerted me and the very rough sea

[Peckris]

On 17 March 2018 at 5:28 PM, Ozzy1977 said:

is it a penny or 2 penny, the add seems a bit confused to me

it's a penny - the 2d (for unknown reasons) has a proportionately larger head in relation to the central area within the raised rim.

[Peter]

Bought this tonight.

Nice bit of history

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1916-Gearge-V-Florin-Forgery-desroyed-by-Westminster-Bank-/142741971845?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=jNF0IjG%252BVExvcP7TErSP7gT03kU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[zookeeperz]

15 hours ago, Peter said:

Bought this tonight.

Nice bit of history

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1916-Gearge-V-Florin-Forgery-desroyed-by-Westminster-Bank-/142741971845?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=jNF0IjG%252BVExvcP7TErSP7gT03kU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I mean I know it's a fake but how do you know the RM destroyed it? He could of cut it in half  with a pair of tin snips. I dare say it's fine but just as a devil's advocate question. But wow and so cheap as well just as a forgery. Nice find

[PWA 1967]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1858-retro-souvenir-Penny-exact-same-size-weight-as-a-Penny/282961077718?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Seller lists as a fake ,but as i have said before as soon as they start toning them beginners will buy them 

All the dates and the bronze aswell.

Edited May 12, 2018 by PWA 1967

[zookeeperz]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1858-retro-souvenir-Penny-exact-same-size-weight-as-a-Penny/282961077718?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Seller lists as a fake ,but as i have said before as soon as they start toning them beginners will buy them 

All the dates and the bronze aswell.

Law should be made all coins that are replica/copies/fantasy should be marked so with a stamp or they are illegal to sell

[zookeeperz]

Just been on FB group and a guy bought this from fleabay. Turns out it is a fake . Jesus they get better and better.

 

[Paddy]

Any indication as to how they know it is a fake? Just so we know what to watch out for...

 

[bagerap]

The lions on the shield have a marked resemblance to poodles.

[Paddy]

Hmmm! That is concerning as that means either mine is a fake too, or the OP one is actually OK...

Here is mine, which I bought about 5 years ago from an old guy I knew very well and had inherited it in a collection of other excellent coins from his father.

[zookeeperz]

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

Any indication as to how they know it is a fake? Just so we know what to watch out for...

 

The guy went in to realms of coin composition and die position which was over my head let me see ah here is the post. I am sure the the math  guru's will understand it

"1818 half crown forgery. Here are two photographs of a dud halfcrown which I purchased last week on e-bay. The standard of workmanship is amazing but I spotted it for the following reasons; 1) the coin is en coin i.e. the sides are at 180 degrees to each other. This was normal for British silver coins up until 1887 but the George III coins of 1816-20 are a major exception; 2) It weighs in at 13.63g i.e. some 0.5g light when compared with other coins of the same era. If you can still get into it, the item number was 163026017759 . On balance though, I think the seller was as much a victim as I would have been as his e-bay record shows no history of selling such items. Needless to say, it is going back Monday morning."

I just realised en coin is meaning coin alignment and these were supposed to be medal alignment. Although there have been coins struck the wrong way up before on our coinage? 0.5g does seem a bit outside of the tolerance though?

Edited May 13, 2018 by zookeeperz

[PWA 1967]

I dont know anything about them but looks ok to me in that it does not look fake 

Also it looks like a red riley coin as the picture is the same ?.

Edited May 13, 2018 by PWA 1967

[1949threepence]

On 5/12/2018 at 1:56 PM, zookeeperz said:

Law should be made all coins that are replica/copies/fantasy should be marked so with a stamp or they are illegal to sell

100% agreed. There are more and more of those infernal "retro souvenir" pennies on e bay. Anybody with experience can spot them instantly as fakes, but a novice might fall for it. Especially if artificially toned and touted as real. 

I'm sure some of the sellers will start passing them off as real before long. Depressing thought.   

    

[jelida]

14 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

I dont know anything about them but looks ok to me in that it does not look fake 

Also it looks like a red riley coin as the picture is the same ?.

I have to say it looks good to me too, if it is fake then this represents a serious improvement and very worrying, but at this stage I would not write it off, I would not say the evidence presented is irrefutable.

Jerry

[Rob]

It looks good to me too, but the die axis and weight are a worry as we know there are Chinese copies with the inverted die axis. I think the check that needs to be made is the milling count. That's the one thing that can't be checked from pictures and the edge is something the Chinese tend to be sloppy on. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Rob

[mrbadexample]

It's Derek's I think.

[zookeeperz]

2 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

It's Derek's I think.

Yes the post was by Derek Allen  sozz my bad

 

[Nick]

On 5/13/2018 at 4:09 PM, Paddy said:

Any indication as to how they know it is a fake? Just so we know what to watch out for...

As far as I'm aware, all of the fakes have the same breaks in the circle above the P and E of PENSE.

[Nick]

They also all have the same nicks and scratches on the obverse. For example, the dent in George's forehead.

Here are two examples that were sold by LCA:

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=144&searchlot=1652&searchtype=2

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=144&searchlot=1653&searchtype=2

Edited May 14, 2018 by Nick

[zookeeperz]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

They also all have the same nicks and scratches on the obverse. For example, the dent in George's forehead.

Here are two examples that were sold by LCA:

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=144&searchlot=1652&searchtype=2

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=144&searchlot=1653&searchtype=2

It is the coin up top on my first post and it looks like it is now confirmed that it is a fake as it has the same dent in the forehead and the 2 die breaks above PE of PENSE. This particular coin according to derek was struck with the wrong die orientation and was 0.5g underweight. The worrying thing is it fooled the auctioneers. So without these markers more could slip past. Also begs the question how many have already been purchased as genuine. Lets hope none of you guys have any in your collections

Edited May 14, 2018 by zookeeperz

[Paddy]

Well I have just visited a friend in Weymouth who has two of these, and based on the above conversation I have checked them - and they both fail. Wrong orientation, dent over the eyebrow, diagonal dent on the neck, breaks above P and E in Pense, even the dent halfway up the second 1 in the date.

Even more worrying he bought his 10 years ago or so from a dealer in Arundel for £250 each. I fear there may be a great many of these out there.

The only consolation for me is that my one seems to pass - orientation is correct and it matches none of the dents and scratches.

If LCA got fooled twice in the same auction, it is a worry for us all.

 

[zookeeperz]

5 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Well I have just visited a friend in Weymouth who has two of these, and based on the above conversation I have checked them - and they both fail. Wrong orientation, dent over the eyebrow, diagonal dent on the neck, breaks above P and E in Pense, even the dent halfway up the second 1 in the date.

Even more worrying he bought his 10 years ago or so from a dealer in Arundel for £250 each. I fear there may be a great many of these out there.

The only consolation for me is that my one seems to pass - orientation is correct and it matches none of the dents and scratches.

If LCA got fooled twice in the same auction, it is a worry for us all.

 

It is a fantasy coin retail of £5.49 . I have seen 6 on the bay ranging from £50-£250 some with bidders. I feel like I should put them wise as they all look like reputable sellers if there is such a thing on the bay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FANTASY-COIN-1818-King-George-III-Half-Crown-1-2-NOVELTY-Coin-UK-dark-colour/173124271826

 

[zookeeperz]

Well I have let them all know those that have them for sale. I guess it is up to them what they do with the information

 

[jelida]

Wow, well done guys, I would say that’s pretty conclusive. And they have been around for over a decade. They will be in a lot of collections. Who knows how many other coins are faked equally well,  so far it seems to mostly be silver because of the difficulty reproducing copper patina, I’m sticking to my pennies, at least there don’t seem to be convincing copies of these.

Jerry

[zookeeperz]

18 minutes ago, jelida said:

Wow, well done guys, I would say that’s pretty conclusive. And they have been around for over a decade. They will be in a lot of collections. Who knows how many other coins are faked equally well,  so far it seems to mostly be silver because of the difficulty reproducing copper patina, I’m sticking to my pennies, at least there don’t seem to be convincing copies of these.

Jerry

I am thinking because these are so good perhaps someone is taking a plaster or rubber mold of a coin and making dies from those.Would take a lot of skill though I would of thought?