NGC grading OMFG!!!

[azda]

I've never seen a worse graded coin than this (so far) MS62. Dafuk were they drinking at NGC when this was graded?

[Peckris 2]

It took me a couple of minutes to get "Dafuk"

[oldcopper]

12 hours ago, azda said:

I've never seen a worse graded coin than this (so far) MS62. Dafuk were they drinking at NGC when this was graded?

Whatever they were drinking they've spilled it all over the coin!

[copper123]

13 hours ago, azda said:

I've never seen a worse graded coin than this (so far) MS62. Dafuk were they drinking at NGC when this was graded?

Has it been scrubbed with Vim?

[Rob]

I'm going to say dye polishing lines - trying to remove the colour seen inside the crown.

[VickySilver]

The lines through the devices (ie Vicky bust and head) extend through from the fields. This IMHO ought to be environmental in that the coin may have been either fingered or exposed to surface contaminants, or even other substances intentionally applied - these then oxidized with the residuals as seen. It is possible that there is no actual wear other than bag marks despite these issues.

Also, as a collector of such, this coin has near to zero appeal and is quite unsightly.

[azda]

22 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

It took me a couple of minutes to get "Dafuk"

😂

[Varietalis]

From NGC's T&Cs

'An owner of an NGC-certified Coin (“Owner”) who believes the Coin is overgraded or not genuine shall submit it for evaluation under NGC’s free “Appearance Review” service. It is not necessary to be an NGC member to submit a Coin for Appearance Review.'

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

5 hours ago, Varietalis said:

From NGC's T&Cs

'An owner of an NGC-certified Coin (“Owner”) who believes the Coin is overgraded or not genuine shall submit it for evaluation under NGC’s free “Appearance Review” service. It is not necessary to be an NGC member to submit a Coin for Appearance Review.'

Aside from the possibility of the coin being downgraded, what compensation or benefit (term used loosely), does the owner/resubmitter/complainant receive?

Are they compensated for the difference in value or do they just get a 'Thank you for catching our error' letter?

It's a very vague statement on NGCs part, which I can understand from a business point of you...

[Sword]

22 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Aside from the possibility of the coin being downgraded, what compensation or benefit (term used loosely), does the owner/resubmitter/complainant receive?

Are they compensated for the difference in value or do they just get a 'Thank you for catching our error' letter?

It's a very vague statement on NGCs part, which I can understand from a business point of you...

The answer is not a very comforting ...

"If Guarantor determines, in its sole reasonable opinion, that Owner is entitled to a remedy under this Guarantee, Guarantor will offer a remedy as set forth below.

Guarantor is committed in all cases to proposing a fair and reasonable remedy. If Owner does not accept such remedy, the Coin will be removed from the NGC holder and returned to Owner along with a payment of the grading fees originally paid to grade the Coin and any reasonable shipping expenses incurred in returning the Coin for correction. In no event will (i) a Coin that has been determined to be not genuine be returned in an NGC holder; (ii) a Coin that has been determined to be overgraded or incorrectly described be returned encapsulated with an incorrect NGC label; or (iii) an “Authentic Hand-Signed” label be returned with an autograph that has been found to be not genuine."

[Rob]

There is a benefit to returning overgraded or not genuine coins for re-evaluation, but that benefit is entirely NGC's as it removes them from the population reports and enhances their reputation for accurate assessment.

You also have the contentious assumption that a coin which was incorrectly graded in the first place, is then correctly graded at the second attempt. Given they supposedly use a fixed set of standards for grading, it should be inconceivable that anything submitted for re-evaluation receives a different grade second time around from the same TPG. 

A far better public service is offered by collectors who point out the inconsistencies.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Rob

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

5 hours ago, Sword said:

The answer is not a very comforting ...

"If Guarantor determines, in its sole reasonable opinion, that Owner is entitled to a remedy under this Guarantee, Guarantor will offer a remedy as set forth below.

Guarantor is committed in all cases to proposing a fair and reasonable remedy. If Owner does not accept such remedy, the Coin will be removed from the NGC holder and returned to Owner along with a payment of the grading fees originally paid to grade the Coin and any reasonable shipping expenses incurred in returning the Coin for correction. In no event will (i) a Coin that has been determined to be not genuine be returned in an NGC holder; (ii) a Coin that has been determined to be overgraded or incorrectly described be returned encapsulated with an incorrect NGC label; or (iii) an “Authentic Hand-Signed” label be returned with an autograph that has been found to be not genuine."

Of course that is best suited, if at all, to the original submitter. A buyer of an encapsulated coin would simply return it to the seller. Although one caveat to that scenario is that most sellers will NOT accept returns of encapsulated coins. Additionally, assuming the seller DID accept returns, they want it returned as sold, not regarded or removed from the slab.

 

And then there is always that one TPG that when challenged about its variety determination, simply creates a new, nonexistent variety to accommodate their attribution.

[VickySilver]

Ah, do tell about the last! 

[blakeyboy]

They will always do things like this whilst funded by people who 'believe' in their 'usefulness'....

.....one born every minute.

[Coinery]

😳 VF details…I get the details bit, but…

[Iannich48]

55 minutes ago, Coinery said:

😳 VF details…I get the details bit, but…

I think that Dafuk would be appropriate for this grade as well.

[ozjohn]

And PCGS could not grade this one declaring it had been cleaned. I've looked very hard at at this coin through a X10 glass and fail to see any evidence of cleaning. There's even some mint luster around the  the legend. As it didn't cost much due to the PCGS grading  AU detail I'm not too unhappy but consistency is grading is a big issue

Edited October 18, 2023 by ozjohn
typo

[blakeyboy]

On 10/5/2023 at 4:58 PM, Coinery said:

😳 VF details…I get the details bit, but…

They got 'Hammered' right, which of course happened recently, judging by the picture....

[copper123]

On 10/5/2023 at 5:55 PM, Iannich48 said:

I think that Dafuk would be appropriate for this grade as well.

Near fine at a push 

[mhcoins]

an issue often is understanding the cross over between the Sheldon scale and English grading standards. A slabbed VF means by English standards fine to good fine

[Rob]

12 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

an issue often is understanding the cross over between the Sheldon scale and English grading standards. A slabbed VF means by English standards fine to good fine

Correct. That's why MS can mean Mostly Smoothed on occasion, referring to between 60 & 70% flattening. 

[Coinery]

1 hour ago, mhcoins said:

an issue often is understanding the cross over between the Sheldon scale and English grading standards. A slabbed VF means by English standards fine to good fine

I think the bits that were trimmed off in the late 1500s may have graded ‘good fine?’ What’s left is melt at best!