PWA 1967

Yes i agree as i mentioned its often hard to tell from a picture ,although you have years of experience and knowledge ,its beginners that are mostly buying them. Pictures is what most of us buy from and new collectors when they receive the coin are not sure what to look for even when they have the coin in hand. Without a second opinion they will then as a forum member messaged me last night / this morning told me just put them away ( as he did ) and only find out when they come to sell them or show them in hand to someone else. Its hard to be sure at first ,although a step in the right direction ,if new collectors have some guide lines to follow. I know or have read on here (BIll pugsley CGS ) people being really dissapointed when they come to sell some that they are not perhaps as good or worth as much as they thought. Plenty people have sent them to a TPG only to find out months after buying them the coin was cleaned / re toned and i dont know anyone personally who did not agree when the pointers were explained to them.Some may not agree and say the TPG does not know what they are doing ,although i feel thats more in disappointment they have been shown something and thought they knew better. I have not got any other pictures of cleaned / re toned coins as i have either returned them ,thrown or given them away ,sometimes to forum members. ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=Cleaned+Penny&searchtype=1 A sample of ones that LCA have listed as cleaned that i mailed to a forum member which helped him and hat off to LCA and recently DNW for making people aware before bidding.

You will probably be better to try NGC rather than NCB 😀 👍

Years ago when i first started collecting and didnt know any better i sent some coins to CGS and was the best thing i ever did as made me learn about coins that had been cleaned and retoned.They were rejected as cleaned although they were toned and i did not have a clue or understand what it meant or why and then spent hours with dealers ,graders and cleaning /re toning some low grade ones ,so i could see the results in hand. The majority of times a coin has been cleaned and then re toned the coin will be an unatural colour as the cleaning has altered the surface.I consider a coin cleaned if the metal has been altered either by Chemicals or damaged caused by abrasion.Coins IMO washed in warm water or bits taken off with a cocktail stick carefully you would not be able to tell as its not damaged the surface. Although only pictures which often IMO is like grading and much harder to tell...............I have just tried to download them and was unable to 😂 Maybe someone is able to put the pictures up please for three pennies UIN 32575 ,32578 and 37644.They may be of know interest to people who know what to look for but might help a new collector or save them a few quid.Bronze go Pink ,brown ,purple or even white and Copper Pink ,purple or black.....Ish colour as depends how much the coin has retoned.The colour can often be blotchy or speckled as the cleaning has changed the metal unevenly. Its an opinion but better to have one than just assume everything is ok. I should also mention the copper penny was sent on behalf of a forum member ,hope thats ok 😀

"mingin " 😂

One i bought NOT attributed off a dealers website ,he is a good friend ,so did tell him what it was but happy to sell it me 👍 They are easier to spot with the other indicators ,die crack to the left of DEI and a wider I in Gratia. Dont see many in a decent grade 1848 /6.

I think its probably worth phoning or sending an email to the Royal mint museum Dave or phoning them to ask who to send the enquiry to. Probably got a better chance of an answer from them than on here 👍

It means have a look at it before bidding as we dont think its right or cleaned but not as bad as the others 😀 They would not say it if the coin looked ok ,so either unnatural or altered surface / finish ?

Yes the 1864 was a good buy ,i know who bought it and the 1849 seemed cheap going off the picture.

Unless the cleaning is blatantly obvious its going to be an opinion and what i might think is cleaned someone else not and vice-versa. The more people think it is cleaned the less buyers you will have when you come to re-sell it and if a dealer thinks it is cleaned then not going to offer as much ,if anything at all for one single coin.Auctioneers will often let the buyers decide(buyers opinion ) and why Erics point of getting a second opinion from someone who can see it in hand is so important ,especially if its a coin thats going to cost a few quid.You dont want to pay a lot for something that others may not agree with in the future. There are thousands of coins bought and sold every year that SOME people may think are cleaned or alternatively not (especially from a picture ) ,thousands of coins are rejected by a TPG because there opinion was the coin was cleaned ,i am sure most if not all are (broken out) in someones collection and the buyer happy. Make your own opinion by learning the tell tale signs is important ,let someone else look at in hand or just leave it alone if you cant form your own opinion before spending good money at auction. Auctions though such as the DNW one mentioned i take my hat off too ,as they have a strong opinion that the coin / coins are cleaned and if you buy them and then not happy its your own daft fault. I would bet money that almost everyone IMO 😀 has a cleaned coin in there pre-decimal collection which wont make much difference to the value ,but if you dont learn the signs it could be easy to have a boxfull that a high percentage of buyers dont want due to a different opinion. My opinion only 😀

Thought it might be interesting for any new collectors. Rare Error Coins - How Do Brockage Errors Occur During the Minting Process? | Baldwins Coins - YouTube

Talking to Neil a few years ago i dont think it was in the same box as Colin would of bought them all if he had known and was purchased years ago .I was told there was 220 Half Pennies and 25 / 30 Farthings ,although i dont know if thats before the seller sold some at Wakefield a few years ago or after , of which i and quite a lot of forum members bought some ,some were better than others but the majority BU.

Its was grade CGS 65 GEF which was the highest graded of the 9 they had done and the best one i found while looking , the buyer told me the best he had seen. Although like most ,you never know what someone may have hidden away 😃

No real problem Pete IMO and had it slabbed ,suppose it was open to opinion but more overlapping rather than damage in hand.

Fortunately they know where they sent it Mike or whats happened to it ,so sure you will receive it soon. A good buy though if its a decent grade ,one i had (sold now ) was from the Alderley collection and when i was looking you dont see many 👍

Many thanks to a couple of forum members who helped me with the Gouby stages on this F15 i found last week NOT attributed. They were initially doing my head in looking at the Gouby book ..........However i now understand them properly. Thank you 👍

One i found recently NOT attributed BP1860JA in a decent grade. N over sideways N (Z)

https://www.baldwin.co.uk/news/to-slab-or-not-to-slab-that-is-the-question/ Another from Baldwin , Anti - Slabbers please tick the box 😀 Notice how they have changed the Capital letters ....Just for you Jon 👍

I bought this at the weekend with some other bits , i know not many are interested in them on here but a bit unusual.

On the subject of 1860 Copper penny ,i know i dealer who has just got one for sale that i believe is really nice with lustre ,although i have not seen it in hand. It is not available on a website or list yet ,but if anyone is interested please PM me and will pass on the details.

I think they DID go into circulation if the mintage figure is correct as if not you would find more in high grade ,more than we see would of been kept or put away. If they did enter circulation then the mintage being so low ,they have been lost ,scrapped or are in collections in different grades like any other year. 30,000 is nothing and not many people even in 1860 would of even seen one ,however its a high mintage for a non circulation coin. Possibly the 1859 die was used for the 1860 ,rather than just thrown away , just to add a few more as it was already worn (1859 ) and the bronze die being made.

Why We Don't Wear White Gloves When Handling Rare Coins | Baldwins Coins - YouTube Something a bit different and people have opinions about , after reading posts on here over the years.

All the ones in packets had no denomination ,so been taken out.

You are correct Bob its not an open 3 both the top and bottom are not right and just a normal one.

The one on the left was RAW and not slabbed Bob ,the one on the right was in a CGS slab and yes the variety was on the label.

Another to show how slabbing high grade coins can help them sell at a premium rather than just people going off a photograph. A couple of nice 1909 Dot have recently been put on the forum and are scarce in grades of better than fine. Both coins were sold in the public domain ,so happy to share them with the coin on the left selling at LCA and the coin on the right sold on a dealers website for £1500. Both coins when i sent pictures of both sides to people they thought would sell in the £300 / £500 range which i also thought was about right if the coin on the right was raw. The coin on the right sold almost straight away and had a couple of offers ,with one person who missed it telling the dealer they would of paid more. I have sold all the ones i wanted to sell ,so makes know difference to me anymore as dont collect ,however anyone considering selling anything that is mint or high grade for type ,maybe its worth considering slabbing them whether you like the idea or not. Buying and grading off pictures is not ideal ,especially if the photos are as bad as mine 😃