Geordie582

Thanks for an interesting discussion, folks! The water is made a little muddier by the reply I've had from the Coin News (February issue - Coin Clinic) regarding the dreaded avatar. It would have us understand that syphate coins - my avatar - were still being produced in the 19th century! I had them between the 11th and 13th centuries. Hmmm! Still thinking on this!

Agreed! But - I'd expect a lot of slippage and 'burring of the image as it is stuck & locates. The only way I can see it working is where a depression is created BEFORE the coin is struck, giving a positive place for both die and anvil. But that means double the work and halving the production time, unless you double the manpower.

Having dislexic fingers, I use the edit facility all the time, as viewing my posts will show, and I've never encountered any problems. Could the problem be more local that site? There we go - I had to correct spelling again! Even editing my edit!!!

If this coin was not 'Treasure', why did the finder only get 20% of the value? I thought the split would have been 50/50?

Yes! and Henry II's Tealby issues were not any better, but that was poor striking, I don't think the design was all that bad. As an aside, How do you think they located top and bottom dies, when there seems to be evidence that the coins were struck on either strips or sheets? At least when striking hammered siver and gold, the cut (punched?) blank was placed on the die and therefore easily seen to be located. (I know there are examples of mis-struck coins but, as Paul says, that could be put down to fatigue or boredom.) Mating top and bottom dies in the syphate case must have been much harder?

Thanks for that Paul. It was the irregular shapes of the bronze issues that intregued me. You'd think that, if they took the trouble to produce the the syphate coins - just think of cutting the means to make images on curved surfaces - they would be more circumspect in their cutting the coin from the blank? It's one of those puzzles without a solution, unless someone comes up with contemporary documentary evidence.

Strange! Your link is "unavailable". Censorship?

Yes! There are some very interesting Byzantines around and it would be easy to get hooked on that timeline. Thank goodness the prices keep me off. I'm still intregued by the mechanics of the thing and can't help wondering why. I notice the first coin in this catalogue to start the syphate disease seems to be that of Michael IV (the Paphlagonian) 1034-41, who had a Histamenon nomisma of "flan slightly concave". Talking of disease - Michael died of dropsy aged 'late 20's'. From then on they became progressively more concave. My musings regarding the problems for merchants and the sheer bulk produced by this form still puzzle me. Just imagine the examples I show, when new, and all corners still sharp! What would it be like to push your hand into a pocket-full of those? I forgot to mention - the coins I show are all bronze - so could be quite sharp!

I'd tend to agree about the wear - except the figure of Christ or the Virgin is usually on the convex side, making it the first to go! I'm sitting looking at Southeby's catalgue for a sale in New York in 1998 and can't find a coin 'in the gold colour' for less than $300. That means I'm out of the picture. A lot of the coins are estimates at $5000!

While examining my meagre collection of Byzantine coins, I was struck by the impracticality of the scyphate form of coin. Despite this, the very worn examples I have go to show that from about the 11th to the 13th century these coins were in constant use. On closer examination, I realised that the production of these coins was much more complicated than the usual flat types. The irregular cut from the sheet would have produced sharp corners. The cup shape would mean a much bulkier pocket or purse, and diving your hand in to get some small change could have been a hazardous event. The couple of examples I add just go to show how haphazard the production, while also showing that they must have been in regular use for a century or more, much like the Victorian bronze, before the disaster of decimalisation! A merchant, cashing up at the end of the day must have had the patience of a saint. The irregular shape, variation in cup depth, and general awkwardness of handling must have driven him mad. Stacking coins to aid calculation would be out of the question. So! Why? Why was the scyphate coin developed? To last a couple of centuries there must have been a powerful reason. Religion? The need to be different? Any thoughts? I just love dropping a pebble in the pond to see how far the ripples go! ( not strictly 'Ancient' but where else to put it?)

I believe it to be Italy Michele Steno, Doge Venice 1400-13 Silver Soldino Obverse;- Doge standing left holding standard. Star to right 0.6 grams Reverse;- Winged angel with nimbus

A very good book for all modern collectors, not just the 'treasure seeker' in joe public! I do wonder at where the valuations come from. I picked one £2 (I currently lack), the 1989 'Claim of rights' in uncirculated. I sent to Chard for this coin, advertised "in stock", priced, as you give, at £5 only to be told it was out of stock. (I see they still claim to have stock). This coin is currently trading on the dreaded e-bay, for over £10 for UNC. Looking at lots of other sites, I cannot find an example. Is this scarcer that you say, or just the artificial manipulation of the market by dealer?

I suppose we should recognise that they provide an easy and cheap introduction to collecting, but something to be treated as a casual aside to the main event! I noticed that most of the Whitman sales in the States were to youngsters.

Still! Maybe we can do without another series of pseudo coins muddying the hobby? I know I collected them and feel pressure to complete the series, but that was only because of the lack of hammered English coins in Rockport, Texas.

With a conk like that it can only be a Charlie!!

I presume you read my claim that it is a 'mark' of King Arthur?

I think that inhabitants of each county would assert their difference from all other counties, especially if you took the 'old' boundaries - Cumberland, Westmoreland etc. After all, the accents differ enough!!

Tom! Did the Hungarians produce any syphate coins? I'm still looking for an origin for the coin I use as my avatar, the reverse shows a similar double cross.

I was reading Computers with the OU at the time, so it was Basic all the way!!

I've just had word from my sister, who is wintering in Texas, that she has the last state quarter,South Dakota, to complete my Quarter collection to date. I started the Whitman while on holiday with her in Texas a couple of yers ago. 40 down, 10 to go! This brought to mind that this system of commemorative coins could work for the UK, one per county. What do you all think?

Don't knock my first computer. After all it cost me my first hammered coin collection (just shows how prices have escalated)

I've always thought that, although the WWW is a good idea, it opens great possibilities for global influence and corruption. It's a pity all the brains in the computer world cannot solve such a basic problem. Oh! And happy New Year to all - except spammers of course, - a plague on all their houses.

We can just hope that the pathetic juvenile losers will one day grow up!

Not just endorsed, but that should be in the front of all numismatic publications!

You've made me glance through 3 years of catalogues and have decided that there has been no visible change in values of early Anglo Saxon coins, especially the 'Porcupine' types. There is som movement on Northumbrian sceats but barely imperceptable. Mind you, that is only one dealer. Don't know if this helps.?