More Pennies

[alfnail]

My final picture has been done with the aid of a graphic designer colleague by combining the 60/59 date with the 59 narrow date………. a 50% transparency of the 60/59 picture has been positioned (using those 3 protrusions as reference points) on top of a 50% transparency of the 59 narrow date.

I do not know whether this has been done before and I may be repeating what others already know. Anyway I feel that my results look fairly conclusive, and would welcome comments.

Thank you for bearing with me, and apologies for hogging the site for a while!!

[1949threepence]

Original Colin helped me get the Adams specimen, still a nice coin...

Coming second on that one with a bid of £1500 still makes me wonder why I didn't bid a bit higher. It seems very cheap with hindsight, but then the world was looking quite rosy at the time, prices for coins were edging up slowly, everyone was making money and there wasn't a financial crisis on the horizon. Go forward 5 or 6 years and the price of a 60/59 to the collector had doubled, whilst half the banking industry was spending its spare cash on changes of corporate underwear. Go forward another 5 or 6 years and the price has trebled from 2003, all paid for by government QE.

It males you Wonder then at £4200 for the Spink coin plus the juice how much it will be listed for on the CC website

£6,500 - it's in their hard copy October catalogue !

[1949threepence]

My final picture has been done with the aid of a graphic designer colleague by combining the 60/59 date with the 59 narrow date………. a 50% transparency of the 60/59 picture has been positioned (using those 3 protrusions as reference points) on top of a 50% transparency of the 59 narrow date.

I do not know whether this has been done before and I may be repeating what others already know. Anyway I feel that my results look fairly conclusive, and would welcome comments.

Thank you for bearing with me, and apologies for hogging the site for a while!!

The great thing about the 1860/59 penny, is that the overstrike is usually very obvious and easy to spot, whereas with other overstrikes, they're not.

Anyway, nice work on your part.

Edited October 10, 2015 by 1949threepence

[PWA 1967]

Original Colin helped me get the Adams specimen, still a nice coin...

Coming second on that one with a bid of £1500 still makes me wonder why I didn't bid a bit higher. It seems very cheap with hindsight, but then the world was looking quite rosy at the time, prices for coins were edging up slowly, everyone was making money and there wasn't a financial crisis on the horizon. Go forward 5 or 6 years and the price of a 60/59 to the collector had doubled, whilst half the banking industry was spending its spare cash on changes of corporate underwear. Go forward another 5 or 6 years and the price has trebled from 2003, all paid for by government QE.

It males you Wonder then at £4200 for the Spink coin plus the juice how much it will be listed for on the CC website

£6,500 - it's in their hard copy October catalogue !

The coin also sold the same day the catalogue was emailed out.

[PWA 1967]

I recently purchased a 1937 proof that is 2+B.

After spending time searching they dont appear to be looked for and not scarce,there is one currently listed on ebay.

However they are not listed by Freeman and c.g.s. dont recognise them.

They are mentioned in David Grooms book who says "reports of obverse 2 being found".

Obviously they were only used for some sets and wondered weather anyone had checked for this variety on there own proofs.

Its was only cheap and the dealer had checked the one i bought.

Pete.

After spending the last few days looking i have come to the conclusion the one i have is just a normal one that has been varnished/lacqured.

I had my doubts as to weather they exist.

Pete.

[1949threepence]

Original Colin helped me get the Adams specimen, still a nice coin...

Coming second on that one with a bid of £1500 still makes me wonder why I didn't bid a bit higher. It seems very cheap with hindsight, but then the world was looking quite rosy at the time, prices for coins were edging up slowly, everyone was making money and there wasn't a financial crisis on the horizon. Go forward 5 or 6 years and the price of a 60/59 to the collector had doubled, whilst half the banking industry was spending its spare cash on changes of corporate underwear. Go forward another 5 or 6 years and the price has trebled from 2003, all paid for by government QE.

It males you Wonder then at £4200 for the Spink coin plus the juice how much it will be listed for on the CC website

£6,500 - it's in their hard copy October catalogue !

The coin also sold the same day the catalogue was emailed out.

I'm not surprised. It's a superb piece.

[RLC35]

Using exactly the same microscope setting of 130x I have taken shots of my two 1859 smaller numeral varieties and attach these as a combined picture, along with the 60/59 date inserted between them for comparison. You will see the Gouby B date style type at the top; the bottom variety is not currently documented by him, but seen from time to time.

When I looked at these 3 pictures side by side I felt that the bottom variety (which I call the narrow date) was a strong candidate for being overstruck with the 60, to create the 60/59 variety. You will notice that there are 3 good protrusions on the 60/59 which could be used to triangulate over the 59 narrow date………..these protrusions are highlighted in red arrows on the next attachment which I am about to post.

Alhnail, One thing I have noticed in the 1860/59, is the fact there are both "broken 6", and "fully formed 6" varieties of the coin. I have had both, though the one I have now (MS61) has the fully formed 6.

[RLC35]

Using exactly the same microscope setting of 130x I have taken shots of my two 1859 smaller numeral varieties and attach these as a combined picture, along with the 60/59 date inserted between them for comparison. You will see the Gouby B date style type at the top; the bottom variety is not currently documented by him, but seen from time to time.

When I looked at these 3 pictures side by side I felt that the bottom variety (which I call the narrow date) was a strong candidate for being overstruck with the 60, to create the 60/59 variety. You will notice that there are 3 good protrusions on the 60/59 which could be used to triangulate over the 59 narrow date………..these protrusions are highlighted in red arrows on the next attachment which I am about to post.

Alhnail, One thing I have noticed in the 1860/59, is the fact there are both "broken 6", and "fully formed 6" varieties of the coin. I have had both, though the one I have now (MS61) has the fully formed 6.

Here is the fully formed "6" type of the 1860/59.

Edited October 10, 2015 by RLC35

[Cliff]

Just read rashenley2's "work in progress" on his englishpennies site re Michael Gouby's BP 1860P, R, S, T and V sub-varieties (F15). The easy to read narratives and comments, combined with the excellent pictorial examples are brilliant.

[Nordle11]

Yes, I've just seen this addition to the site, very well described and laid out. The close up pictures are great, too.

[azda]

All the talk of 1860/59 got me thinking, how rare is just a normal 1860, there seems to be more over 59 just lately and not a peep on a straight 60

Edited October 16, 2015 by azda

[PWA 1967]

All the talk of 1860/59 got me thinking, how rare is just a normal 1860, there seems to be more over 59 just lately and not a peep on a straight 60

Never heard of or seen one dave.

[Nordle11]

I was going to say that I didn't think there was one known but then thought I made that up haha.

[1949threepence]

All the talk of 1860/59 got me thinking, how rare is just a normal 1860, there seems to be more over 59 just lately and not a peep on a straight 60

There's no 1860 copper variety pennies, which aren't 60/59. Supposedly 32,256 were minted, which obviously accounts for their scarcity, and in the same year, they were replaced with the (then) new bronze type.

Clearly they knew that the new type were imminent, and were just using up old 1859 penny dies on producing a few of the old variety to meet immediate demand ahead of the new production.

[Bernie]

Not sure about proof 1860's ?

Were they 60/59's ???

[VickySilver]

Wow, have not seen or heard of these...I got a proof 1860 bunhead lying around somewhere & don't (horror of horrors!!) know the F#.

[Chingford]

I have never seen reference to CP1860/59 proof, there is a record in Mangahas of an example in Lead, a Bronzed currency piece recorded by Peck was described as with WW on truncation and therefore suggests an altered earlier date

The same record suggests CHP1860 proof and currency in the BM, the latter was recorded by Peck as a later Mint strike Ex-Fremantle

Edited October 18, 2015 by Chingford

[Bernie]

I've seen a few copper proofs over the years, but don't recall whether they were overdates or not.

[azda]

Wow, have not seen or heard of these...I got a proof 1860 bunhead lying around somewhere & don't (horror of horrors!!) know the F#.

This would be the thread to throw up a picture Vicky

[VickySilver]

Let's see if I can walk through it later in the week - visiting a "friend with benefits" right now. I think the proof that has been bandied about may have been an 1841 (?). Rather like the nicer '39 proofs, for some reason somewhat better than the 1853 proofs...

[secret santa]

Just watched this early beaded pattern (F763) on Ebay go from £21 to £271-66 in 10 seconds !!!!!!

[jelida]

I was the under bidder, didnt think I could justify more because of the poor condition.

Jerry

[Peter]

Too right.

I wouldn't want that to send me on a wild goose chase to better it.

[Peter]

BTW guilty of the crime and the monkey is on my back.

[jacinbox]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-Victorian-Bronze-Penny-Extremely-Rare-Freeman-21-/151844494070?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=QTihQRTvkAbtrCIr%252BywKMe9cmMk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

2+D or a 3+D Colon dots after D:G clearly point to a tooth and the rose is not full either.