PWA 1967 Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) On 3/21/2021 at 2:25 PM, 1949threepence said: Meant to say I kept an eye on this pairing, out of interest. They didn't sell. Not entirely surprised though. As Richard says, the estimates were a bit pricey. They are really hard to find Mike especially with lustre and i have looked and bought a lot over about seven years.This was one of the best ones i bought thats UNC and very lightly MT and are so hard to find its one i kept when i sold a lot of other types. Edited March 30, 2021 by PWA 1967 2 Quote
alfnail Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/28/2021 at 10:52 AM, 1949threepence said: The second question concerns the 1860/59. Over 32,000 of these were minted and I've now read in two sources that they were never issued for circulation. But if that was the case, then what happened to them? Where were they kept and how come they are in the public domain at all? Moreover, I've seen a few - one was posted on here a while back - which had quite obviously been in circulation. From the state of it, you'd have been forgiven for thinking it was for longer than the 9 or 10 years possible maximum before demonetisation. The obverse of the 1860/59 coins are always seen with the same features highlighted in RED on the attachment, doubled ‘ghosted’ ribbon, and scuffs under this ribbon and QV’s chin. Apart from the date features these things confirm all these pieces were struck from a single altered 1859 die (i.e. the narrow 59 type, which is fairly rare variety in itself on an 1859). I believe that an average figure for the number of coins which could be struck from a new die was around 30,000, but if a die was already partially used then it would probably produce less than that figure. I’m just wondering whether the rarity of 1860/59’s could be partially explained by the practice of using dies from earlier years, but not altering dates. For example, I understand that the mint figures for 1848 are only around 160,000, whereas for 1849 they are stated as 268,800. Clearly, however, 1849’s are much rarer than 1848’s, so this suggests that most of the 1849 number of 268,800 actually bear the date of 1848; the mint not bothering to alter 1848 dated dies when the calendar moved to 1849. 1 Quote
RLC35 Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, alfnail said: The obverse of the 1860/59 coins are always seen with the same features highlighted in RED on the attachment, doubled ‘ghosted’ ribbon, and scuffs under this ribbon and QV’s chin. Apart from the date features these things confirm all these pieces were struck from a single altered 1859 die (i.e. the narrow 59 type, which is fairly rare variety in itself on an 1859). I believe that an average figure for the number of coins which could be struck from a new die was around 30,000, but if a die was already partially used then it would probably produce less than that figure. I’m just wondering whether the rarity of 1860/59’s could be partially explained by the practice of using dies from earlier years, but not altering dates. For example, I understand that the mint figures for 1848 are only around 160,000, whereas for 1849 they are stated as 268,800. Clearly, however, 1849’s are much rarer than 1848’s, so this suggests that most of the 1849 number of 268,800 actually bear the date of 1848; the mint not bothering to alter 1848 dated dies when the calendar moved to 1849. Some of the 1860/59's have the 6 broken, at the bottom, and some do not. Edited March 30, 2021 by RLC35 Quote
alfnail Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 Yes, that's true, but it's the same die, just deteriorates with use i. e. the 6 breaks Quote
VickySilver Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 I love this date nearly as much as the 1849 when truly mint state. What I waited for was an example that had the breast to left on Britannia struck up. I too wonder how many were struck and survive; in the era of internet they come up rather more frequently than in previous times... Quote
secret santa Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 Bob I just clicked on your website link and got some chinese site with Stephen Gerrard on it ??????? Visit My Website Quote
1949threepence Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, VickySilver said: I love this date nearly as much as the 1849 when truly mint state. What I waited for was an example that had the breast to left on Britannia struck up. I too wonder how many were struck and survive; in the era of internet they come up rather more frequently than in previous times... Yes, they're obviously very expensive. But in truth they're not desperately rare. You wouldn't have to struggle to find one, or wait very long if you couldn't. Quote
Rob Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/28/2021 at 10:52 AM, 1949threepence said: Couple of questions which have been intriguing me. I'm not entirely sure anyone can answer them with any degree of true certainty, but I thought I would throw them out there for the sake of interest if nothing else. The first question concerns the 1827 penny. Clearly they are a scarce item, but why are so many porous/corroded? That seems to be a commonality in many (although not all). I read one report that the porosity was incurred on a sea voyage to Australia, where the pennies had apparently been produced for. But this was an unofficial account, although it sounds plausible enough. If seawater had breached the hold where the coins were stored, the corrosion is easily explained. Is it true though? I've also noted that it appears virtually impossible to obtain one in very high grade. I can't confirm if it is true, but I'm lead to believe there are only two mint state examples available. There's one in an MS65(?) slab with questionable colour that was on Cooke's site for years and another in a private collection which definitely doesn't have any problems. Quote
Rob Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 3 hours ago, 1949threepence said: Yes, they're obviously very expensive. But in truth they're not desperately rare. You wouldn't have to struggle to find one, or wait very long if you couldn't. Despite my lack of enthusiasm for pennies, I still regret being underbidder on the Adams coin. Such is life - must put money where mouth is. Quote
secret santa Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Colin Adams coin £1550 plus commission ! 2 Quote
Iannich48 Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, secret santa said: Colin Adams coin £1550 plus commission ! Very nice. What would the cost be today I wonder? 1 Quote
VickySilver Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Uh, I will confess to getting the Adams 1860/59....And 1550 was the price on that as well. 2 Quote
Iannich48 Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, VickySilver said: Uh, I will confess to getting the Adams 1860/59....And 1550 was the price on that as well. Bargain! Quote
1949threepence Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Iannich48 said: Very nice. What would the cost be today I wonder? Considerably more !!! 1 Quote
Chingford Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 9 hours ago, secret santa said: Colin Adams coin £1550 plus commission ! One I had for a while, now part of a Gentleman's Choice collection 3 Quote
Chingford Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 5 hours ago, 1949threepence said: Considerably more !!! 1 Quote
Chingford Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 19 hours ago, Rob said: I can't confirm if it is true, but I'm lead to believe there are only two mint state examples available. There's one in an MS65(?) slab with questionable colour that was on Cooke's site for years and another in a private collection which definitely doesn't have any problems. Adams coin is currently residing in a NGC MS61 slab after being carefully conserved, was in a CGS65 slab before being broken out and sold raw at LCA, Didn't sell at Goldberg's Auction $8,000 - $10,000 There are currently two NGC MS65 1827 Pennies, one BN the other RB. Quote
Peckris 2 Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Chingford said: One I had for a while, now part of a Gentleman's Choice collection Explain? Quote
Chingford Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said: Explain? I sold it to another collector Quote
Michael-Roo Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 13 hours ago, secret santa said: Colin Adams coin £1550 plus commission ! Very nice indeed but, as I bought this one for £175 delivered, you can count me happy enough. 4 Quote
Peckris 2 Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 On 3/31/2021 at 10:32 PM, Chingford said: I sold it to another collector Is that what Gentleman's Choice means? Quote
jelida Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said: Is that what Gentleman's Choice means? I suspect that ‘Gentleman’s Choice’ , capitalised, refers to a named collection created by some individual who otherwise wishes to remain anonymous, a bit like the ‘North Yorkshire Moors’ collection recently sold at auction. I quite like these suggestions that might provide the inspiration when naming my own collection. https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2016/11/18/the-top-ten-list-of-bad-coin-collection-names Jerry 2 1 Quote
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