Peckris 2 Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Rob said: Assuming the holder is genuine, that might just be dipped. For some reason, dipping (and 'conservation') isn't considered cleaning by the TPGs. Not a chance. Dipping doesn't give a mirrored polished look. If anything it makes silver more dull, though does remove unsightly tarnish or bad toning. Quote
JLS Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Sword said: To be fair, most dealers don't consider dipping as cleaning either. You are one of very few that mention dipping in the description. Unless it was a US coin where dipping is "market acceptable" for some reason, I'd be pretty annoyed to be sold a dipped coin as problem-free. Last year I bought a nice looking Edward VII florin out of DNW at the reserve on an opportunistic bid. It was in a MS61 holder and described as EF+, bright... In hand, blank, lifeless surfaces, no real mint brilliance. Luckily I didn't pay too much for it and found someone at Bloomsbury who took it off me for what I purchased it for... Quote
Sword Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 "Bright" is a suspicious word in auction descriptions. I think it often implies an unspecified "cleaning" issue. The problem-free word is probably "lustrous". Quote
Rob Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, Sword said: "Bright" is a suspicious word in auction descriptions. I think it often implies an unspecified "cleaning" issue. The problem-free word is probably "lustrous". Except on eBay where the opposite applies. All things bright and not beautiful are described as lustrous. 1 Quote
Sword Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Rob said: Except on eBay where the opposite applies. All things bright and not beautiful are described as lustrous. Ebay Quote
1949threepence Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 17 hours ago, Peckris 2 said: Not a chance. Dipping doesn't give a mirrored polished look. If anything it makes silver more dull, though does remove unsightly tarnish or bad toning. I've got a 1907 shilling which I think has been dipped - got a distinctly "matt" finish. Not real lustre, which is obvious as you turn the coin. 1 Quote
bagerap Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 About 9-10 years ago when silver had reached silly money, I put some pre 1919 culls through an ultrasonic cleaner before selling for melt. They all came out with a matte finish. Quote
Sword Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Sword said: Ebay 4 hours ago, 1949threepence said: I am probably in the small minority of people never to have brought from eBay or or whatever. I probably wasn't being clear earlier. I was just laughing at the common occurrences of blatant misrepresentation by some sellers on that platform. Quote
1949threepence Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Sword said: I am probably in the small minority of people never to have brought from eBay or or whatever. I probably wasn't being clear earlier. I was just laughing at the common occurrences of blatant misrepresentation by some sellers on that platform. I think you need to know what you're doing with the shark infested waters of e bay. If you are cautious and know your subject (usually your specialist hobby area), then there are bargains to be had. I've been fortunate enough to bag a number of them over the years. Generally speaking they are cheaper than many dealers, although I appreciate some dealers combine their own website with e bay sales. The very rare and/or very high quality stuff you see at auction, but that comes with the additional cost. Quote
alfnail Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 I see that someone has now bid on this, amazing! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1843-Victoria-Copper-Penny/164249753649 1 Quote
Weaver Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 9 hours ago, alfnail said: I see that someone has now bid on this, amazing! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1843-Victoria-Copper-Penny/164249753649 Forgive me, but can you list the problems with the coin listed on e bay please? I ask so I can add to my knowledge bank. I mean, I see several edge knocks and am I right that it's been harshly cleaned? Cheers, Weaver (wayne) Quote
Paddy Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 There are people here who know a lot more about pennies than me, but as an amateur I can see immediately that this is wrong. The hair is too coarse, the features on the bust are crudely executed - I describe it as "cartoon-like". The toning is unnatural and clearly modern and artificial. That is before you get into the actual errors - the shield should be more convex and the line spacing looks wrong. The date numerals look too large and possibly the wrong font - but there are so many errors that the overall effect is dreadful. 1 Quote
Diaconis Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 21 hours ago, 1949threepence said: I think you need to know what you're doing with the shark infested waters of e bay. If you are cautious and know your subject (usually your specialist hobby area), then there are bargains to be had. I've been fortunate enough to bag a number of them over the years. Generally speaking they are cheaper than many dealers, although I appreciate some dealers combine their own website with e bay sales. The very rare and/or very high quality stuff you see at auction, but that comes with the additional cost. I agree, what about an 'Ebay's BEST Offerings' Topic, where we all share our doozies and say what a great selling site it can be? 1 Quote
Paddy Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Weaver said: So it's 'clearly' a fake coin right? 100% fake and not even a good one. 1 1 Quote
Weaver Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Paddy said: 100% fake and not even a good one. Man, I have got soooo much to learn because I didn't spot that as a fake at all. I knew that it wasn't in much of a collectible grade, but I never thought it would be a counterfeit or replica coin. I'm learning from you guys!😎 Cheers, Weaver (wayne) Quote
jelida Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Paddy said: 100% fake and not even a good one. Yes, modern Chinese fakes cheaply purchased from Aliexpress. and similar, available in all dates. You have to look out for examples of the bronze series too, indeed most denominations. They are close, but not exact copies. Here is another seller, his British copper are clearly fake, and I suspect his foreign coins may be too. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1839-British-Large-Penny-Queen-Victoria/174324549566?hash=item28968d87be:g:pegAAOSwmGde75AZ Jerry Quote
alfnail Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 ... and I suspect that the edge knocks and cleaning have been deliberately done in an attempt to make it look authentic. 1 Quote
Sword Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Weaver said: Man, I have got soooo much to learn because I didn't spot that as a fake at all. I knew that it wasn't in much of a collectible grade, but I never thought it would be a counterfeit or replica coin. I'm learning from you guys!😎 Cheers, Weaver (wayne) The easiest way to learn is to compare a suspect coin with a genuine one. This type of fakes is not convincing as the the design is crude and is formed from sharp and deep cut lines. "Cartoon-like" as Paddy has put it. Paddy has also listed the things to look out for. Quote
1949threepence Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Weaver said: Man, I have got soooo much to learn because I didn't spot that as a fake at all. I knew that it wasn't in much of a collectible grade, but I never thought it would be a counterfeit or replica coin. I'm learning from you guys!😎 Cheers, Weaver (wayne) Once you've seen a lot of genuine pennies, the fake ones hit you in the eye immediately. Even if they're good. That 1843, despite the artificial wear and knocks, is actually quite poor. Probably I'd be unable to recognise fakes of other denominations. Quote
1949threepence Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Diaconis said: I agree, what about an 'Ebay's BEST Offerings' Topic, where we all share our doozies and say what a great selling site it can be? That's a great idea. Do you want to get the ball rolling? Quote
Peckris 2 Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 4:06 PM, 1949threepence said: I've got a 1907 shilling which I think has been dipped - got a distinctly "matt" finish. Not real lustre, which is obvious as you turn the coin. Yes, that sounds like a dipped coin. Quote
rpeddie Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 really good fake 1797 penny, a lot of subtlties are different Quote
Peckris 2 Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, rpeddie said: really good fake 1797 penny, a lot of subtlties are different It's a twopence, quite possibly genuine? Quote
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