"Penny Overs" 1865 Penny 5 over 3

[The Bee]

Hi 

I pushed the boat out last week and bought an 1858 Penny, 8 over over 7, for just over £12

It reminded me that I thought I had some other examples of Penny "something" over "something's."

I had a quick look yesterday (now I have the microscope) and found an 1865, 5 over 3 (most likely would have come from an old coin album)

It's very clear but I don't think its anything unusual - just wanted to check

In the 2nd image you can clearly see the 3 hiding behind the 5, with a tiny bit of the 3 sticking out of the back of the 5 at the top

Very Best Regards

Richard

 

 

  

 

[Martinminerva]

Yes, another good find!

These are scarce rather than rare and there are many subtly different types of 1865 over 3 overdate, but yours is indeed nice and clear. Keep up the good work and welcome to the world of varieties!

[Peckris 2]

yes, a very clear 1865/3 - nice one

[PWA 1967]

Sorry to jump on your post ,however i have a 1865/3 for sale.

Its been WIPED although R13 and think the price is fair.

Gouby BP1865Be

£40 posted Tracked Delivery to the UK and can message clear pictures of the overdate as to big to download.

 

[blakeyboy]

How d'you mean- "wiped" ?

[PWA 1967]

1 hour ago, blakeyboy said:

How d'you mean- "wiped" ?

Wiped with a cloth with 3 in 1 oil or grease on.

Edited September 12, 2024 by PWA 1967

[copper123]

Pretty sure the halfpenny is a lot rarer , i had a nice one years ago but sold it for a good price

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

2 hours ago, copper123 said:

Pretty sure the halfpenny is a lot rarer , i had a nice one years ago but sold it for a good price

I would tend to agree.

I have only owned 5 or 6 half penny overdates, but at least 3 dozen (probably more) penny overdates.

There are also many more offerings of the penny overrated as opposed to the half penny overdate.

Edited September 12, 2024 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Coinery]

8 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Wiped with a cloth with 3 in 1 oil or grease on.

Really? Is that all it means? 

[PWA 1967]

1 hour ago, Coinery said:

Really? Is that all it means? 

It means altered surface / cleaned , which can mean a number of things but in the case of the penny I have it’s been done with a grease or oil in my opinion.

Edited September 12, 2024 by PWA 1967

[The Bee]

Hi,

Just going through a bucket of circulated pennies. I havn't gone through so many in ages. Two more bags to sort out. Mainly George V (someone really liked collecting 1926 for some reason!) 

First pass through = my best find is a 1902 Low Tide in decent shape (so once I've checked it - it will upgrade my current one) for a circulated penny (not rare or probably even scarce but normally I find them quite worn). Others include circulated / worn KN 1918 and 1919 (loads of GV H pennies, to be expected) and odd George 6th Halfpenny (almost went into the dirty coin bag) which I might share.

Anyway in the meantime thought I share close up of the 1858 8 over 7 Penny off ebay . When it arrived because of the light I just couldn't see it - but once under the microscope its quite clear 

 Very Best Regards

Richard

[Peckris 2]

what's that protruding from the bottom of the 8? certainly not part of the 7.

[The Bee]

I just assumed it was the end the downstroke from the 7 , I will see if I can get a better photo

[jelida]

It is the bottom of the leg of the 7, there is an illusion that the leg of the 7 comes down the left of the void of the 8, when in fact it comes down the right side and aligns perfectly.

Jerry

[The Bee]

Many thanks Jelida,

These are the best photos I could get. I only occasionally find pre 1860 pennies in old albums (pre 1860 Farthings and Half Pennies are fairly frequent) so it felt worth a bid

Very Best Regards

Richard

 

 

 

[Peckris 2]

10 hours ago, jelida said:

It is the bottom of the leg of the 7, there is an illusion that the leg of the 7 comes down the left of the void of the 8, when in fact it comes down the right side and aligns perfectly.

Jerry

yes of course. I was seeing the left hand of the lower 8 loop as being the 7 downstroke, when as you say it's actually on the right.

[The Bee]

I started to sort out my Victorian - Edwardian Halfpennies at the weekend. I say started because it took ages to pull together all the best examples.

I'll need to go through them again and try to sort out them out properly identifying the correct die pairs

Anyway here is (I think !) an 1861 Halfpenny where the 2nd 1 has been struck over another 1 (but no 8 over 

Very Best Regards

Richard

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Paddy]

If this is 7+G I think the variety is noted in @secret santa's excellent website. Rarity given as "?" so not enough data yet to know.

See: https://halfpennyvarieties.wordpress.com/victoria-halfpenny-varieties/

 

[The Bee]

Possible Reverse Gouby j (Freeman Reverse H) - 7 over 7 ? and Halfpenny 1863 large 3 possibly something going on with the 3 ? 

Apologies - not sure if these might be of interest on a wet Sunday afternoon

I had put this 1874 H aside in the tray to look at again. The tail of the 7 almost touches the H and it looks as if there is some doubling over the 7 ? I wondered if it might be an example of the 7 over 7 ?

Also I have a few 1863 Halfpennies . The top line of the three in all my examples joins the curve of the 3 in a straight line. In this example there seems to be a slight curve ? Might just be (unlike pennies and farthings) I have fewer decent quality halfpennies (most being very worn)    

Very Best Regards - have a good weekend

 

 

 

 

[Martinminerva]

12 minutes ago, The Bee said:

I wondered if it might be an example of the 7 over 7 ?

Yes - certainly is. Another nice find - you seem to have a few!  Richard (secretsanta) might well appreciate full coin pictures of both obverse and reverse for his website...

[The Bee]

Many thanks Martinminerva

I'm glad its of interest.

I only started collecting coins again in April this year. Blame it all on purchasing off ebay a "Professional collection book" partly full of Farthings and a small green "coin album" largely full of worn halfpennies - that reflecting on the disappearance of late fathers collection. 

Also attached picture of 1893 Penny, looks like (top right of the of the "8") might have of been struck over another 8 ? (I assume if correct its another coin from Mr Goulby's book)

The 8 is raised above the surface as normal. As opposed to the 8 in the 1860 I posted the other day which appears (with the rest of the date) to be in outline only   

Be great to get thoughts on the 1863 Halfpenny and 1860 Penny if the images were clear enough - not to mention the 1893 penny

Very Best Regards

 

 

 

[secret santa]

2 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

Richard (secretsanta) might well appreciate full coin pictures of both obverse and reverse for his website

Done, thanks.

[Martinminerva]

Think it is an "actual" 7 over 7 (lower 7 type) and therefore example 12, rather than 3A of the higher 7 type, Richard @secret santa

@The BeeBee - my thoughts on your other coins: the 1860 is typical of what happens when a coin is buried in soil for ages (ie. a detector find) and acids in the soil eat away at, ironically, the more raised parts of the design leaving this "ghost" image of letters and numerals. Have seen it myself on numerous coins, silver included, so of no numismatic interest, sadly.

The 8 double entered on the 1893 is a sign of die strengthening/repair/re-entry as happened a lot in the Victorian series as dies often got a real pounding. All sorts of dates display various letters and numbers thus doubled. If you do track down a copy of Gouby's latest penny book with the update pages (good luck!), he covers quite a few examples, but loads of others are known. The less obvious the doubling, generally the less interest there is - compare the significant doubling of your 1874 above!

The 1863 halfpenny looks like a standard large 3 (see below - from Richard's halfpenny website, parallel to his penny one) to me. I think on your example, some wear or scuffing diagonally across the 3 from top right to bottom left has deformed the 3 slightly? Again, I don't think it is of any significance.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by Martinminerva

[The Bee]

Many thanks Martin

That's really helpful thank you. I will wait for it the 1874H to be added and then take a note. 

When I looked at Richard's site I thought it looked like the right hand image of BP 1874 Nn 

Very Best Regards

Richard

 

 

[Martinminerva]

6 minutes ago, The Bee said:

I thought it looked like the right hand image of BP 1874 Nn

Yes, it certainly is. Richard (santa) will I'm sure agree when he gets my post and tweak the example numbers.

Too many Richards with you too!!😉

Happy variety hunting!