The Bee

Hi, I received another pile of circulated pennies over the weekend and had a look last night. Over half of pennies in this accumulation were end of QV reign 1896 -1901. So far had a look through 1896 and 1899. Under 1899 I have one example where spacing of the 9's are clearly closer together (first one I think I've seen) assuming its Mr Freeman's 1 B (I have the 2006 reprint) not sure if there is any other description. I also started to tidy up 1880 and found just one where the 0 is set slightly higher. Lastly having found missing serif's in 1888 (quite a few so must be quite common) I thought I'd check 1889. No luck so far on 1889 missing serifs, but on comparing my 1889 in the main tray vs the 1889 next best (which I had relegated to the box of next best's) I noticed some differences on the obverse on Victoria's face. I assuming the smooth nose might be 12N and the one with a triangular depression would be 13 N ? Very Best Regard

Hi I have just finished pulling together my 1879 Pennies to compare date widths - all circulated coins . Apologies for any duplication. Top left is the narrow 1879 The very worn penny at the bottom of the picture may just be a more worn version of some of one of the others (I have found 3 examples in identical condition) Great to get your thoughts - I'm sure I'm missing a few ! Best Regards

I wonder, could it be the least flattering coin portrait of any GB monarch ! "Everyone likes flattery; and when you come to Royalty you should lay it on with a trowel." Benjamin Disraeli

For 1892 I think I have a worn example of the fatter face. I think when worn you can see a "v" in the chin area. Think I've seen "fatter face" for sale in good condition (possibly EF) but expensive. And sounds a good hypothesis ! If QV was unhappy about it in 1874, then she would probably still be "unamused" at a second attempt in 1889 - 92 . Her chins were looking better in 1896 just in time for her Diamond Jubilee the following year!

Hi, Just a query. I had a look at my "best" 1890 - 1892 Pennies. These examples being circulated show wear on highlights (particularly wreath and berries) but the portrait is okay and QV's chin is clear. My 1890 and 1891 have the fatter chin and 1892 normal chin. So being curious I wondered whether the changeover was clean* or does anyone out there have either a 1891 Penny with a normal chin or an 1892 Penny with the fatter chin ??? Very Best Regards * I will have a look at the rest of my 1891 and 1892 to see if I can find anything

Many thanks for the comments When I joined the list I really didn't think anyone would comment on any of my posts - being a relatively complete beginner I really like blakeyboy's 1880, the correction to the "0" is clear, I assume that followed on from my posting at the the top of the list Thank you PWA 1967 for the comment on the 1896, I had no idea it was scarce. only that its the only one I've found (obviously well circulated). It made me wonder if there was a practice at the Mint, when they has spare time (aside from repairing broken dies) they prepared a die with the first three digits and then just had to put the last digit in, but suffered last digit "creep." Or maybe it simply was done for bet / last day on the job / the heavy head after the big night before ! I wonder if there were letters to the Times about sloppy pennies ! Incidentally Newspapers even early ones were consecutively numbered for each week or day e.g. 1000, 1001, 1002, etc. But I've noticed when it got to Christmas / New Year this is the time errors creep in. You'll find the number doesn't change , or changes by far more than it should. On 1889, both pennies are in decent condition. These were probably purchases to upgrade and probably bought two by accident, rather than the one I needed. I know its a bit numpty, but if you look at the lower of the two QV's and follow the queens eyebrow up to the top, there a clear depression which has the illusion of being roughly triangular (head left from the end of the eyebrow then when it terminates up right and back down right). This has the missing leaf. The nose is different (the right side of the "triangle"-and the nostril is different , as is I think is the chin, possibly the neck, etc. Photographed at a different angle the differences wouldn't be so obvious. I only spotted it because like to handle coins and as I tilted it at a certain angle the sunlight caught it and I saw the area under QV's nose. If anyone has the time / interest and is able to share pictures of other extremes in dates from any year that you've noticed - that would be really helpful Very Best Regards and thanks again

Many thanks Secret Santa It is really helpful to see the examples of the differences in the widths of the date I think I have the 9.5 and 10 Probably though an improvement on1896 and 1897, where the mint staff must have staggered back in to work after a very big night out, or the QA team was unwell ! Very Best Regards

Many thanks Peckris 2 Sounds like there is a lot of variety (or inconsistency) in 1899. Maybe the apprentices had been given a chance to show what they could do ! I wondered would it be possible to advise what the very narrowest and very widest would be ? Very Best Regards

Thank goodness for Secret Santa's wordpress site ! Just checked the leaves and the RE in REG. Victoria "Triangle" has a leaf missing , replaced by hair , and the long tail of the R touches the base of the E ! So this is Mr Freeman's Obverse 13 Whilst Victoria "Smooth" has the leaf and the R and E are clearly separated ... and this is Mr Freeman's Obverse 12 So good I almost added an emoji ! Very Best Regards !

Hi I pushed the boat out last week and bought an 1858 Penny, 8 over over 7, for just over £12 It reminded me that I thought I had some other examples of Penny "something" over "something's." I had a quick look yesterday (now I have the microscope) and found an 1865, 5 over 3 (most likely would have come from an old coin album) It's very clear but I don't think its anything unusual - just wanted to check In the 2nd image you can clearly see the 3 hiding behind the 5, with a tiny bit of the 3 sticking out of the back of the 5 at the top Very Best Regards Richard

Many thanks Martin That's really helpful thank you. I will wait for it the 1874H to be added and then take a note. When I looked at Richard's site I thought it looked like the right hand image of BP 1874 Nn Very Best Regards Richard

Many thanks Martinminerva I'm glad its of interest. I only started collecting coins again in April this year. Blame it all on purchasing off ebay a "Professional collection book" partly full of Farthings and a small green "coin album" largely full of worn halfpennies - that reflecting on the disappearance of late fathers collection. Also attached picture of 1893 Penny, looks like (top right of the of the "8") might have of been struck over another 8 ? (I assume if correct its another coin from Mr Goulby's book) The 8 is raised above the surface as normal. As opposed to the 8 in the 1860 I posted the other day which appears (with the rest of the date) to be in outline only Be great to get thoughts on the 1863 Halfpenny and 1860 Penny if the images were clear enough - not to mention the 1893 penny Very Best Regards

Possible Reverse Gouby j (Freeman Reverse H) - 7 over 7 ? and Halfpenny 1863 large 3 possibly something going on with the 3 ? Apologies - not sure if these might be of interest on a wet Sunday afternoon I had put this 1874 H aside in the tray to look at again. The tail of the 7 almost touches the H and it looks as if there is some doubling over the 7 ? I wondered if it might be an example of the 7 over 7 ? Also I have a few 1863 Halfpennies . The top line of the three in all my examples joins the curve of the 3 in a straight line. In this example there seems to be a slight curve ? Might just be (unlike pennies and farthings) I have fewer decent quality halfpennies (most being very worn) Very Best Regards - have a good weekend

Hi Apologies for troubling the list so soon. Having read through Secret Santa's Penny Varieties, I decided to be a bit methodical and work through all of my Victorian pennies, to see if I had anything variety wise which had escaped me so far. I was following up searching for different date widths for 1889 - 1893 pennies and so far checked 1889 - 1892 - sadly they all look the same I did however find while sorting out the pennies a 1860 penny where the date on the reverse has the appearance of being etched in - so you just have outline of the date, I assume its an odd form of damage, as I can make out the same effect on BRITT REG, the coin has been shined (by a previous owner) and is in terrible condition so it doesn't photograph that well - but great to get your thoughts Also thought I'd share a 1890 Penny where the 90 is slightly lower than the 18 - I'd not noticed it before my assumption being that its probably fairly common And I wondered what years you would recommend I should check for "date widths" aside from 1877 and 1889-92 ? Thank you for your help ! Very Best Regards Richard

Many thanks PWA 1967 and Secret Santa Sounds like the "The British Bronze Penny 1860-1901" is quite scarce, but essential reading. I will have to be as patient as I am when newspaper collecting, and hopefully a copy will turn up ! Very Best Regards Thanks again

Hi Apologies , I've had another go at the 1860 penny with the date appearing as an outline Not sure whether these photos might help ? Very Best Regards Richard P.S. Thank you again on the 1890

Thank you PWA 1967 and Secret Santa. By any chance is the book you mentioned by Michael Goulby "The British Bronze Penny 1860 - 1970" ? I've been trying (without success) to track a copy down ! I only recently managed to get Michael Freeman's "Bronze Coinage of GB" 2006 edition (I only had the1985 edition prior to that) On the 1860 I will try to get a better image. My guess is some kind of damage. The date and legend appear in outline only. In the date 1860 the 8 there is an S shape which is thinner at the end and fatter in the middle and the other two parts of the 8 would appear to pass under the S Very Best Regards and thanks again Richard P.S. I think I have found examples of two widths in 1893 and 2 in 1877 (excluding the wider one) just need to work out on the 1877 whether the slightly narrower date one is the scarce one !

Many thanks for the advice, I've ordered a copy of the Token Book ! Very Best Regards Richard

Many thanks Paddy - it's great to know what it is ! Sounds like I will need to try to acquire a copy of Wither's list of Evasions along with literature (with decent pictures !) on contemporary counterfeits, as I'm likely to run into other examples (based on my so far 5 and a bit months of collecting). I did wonder if it appeared in "A Journey through the Monkalokian rain forests in search of the Spiney Fubbaduck. (Evasions)" which I believe also covers evasion coins. Best Regards

John Jervis [later Earl St Vincent] I found this earlier today. I bought another old album at auction and removed most of the coins last night , all worn , Charles II & George I Farthings , George II and III halfpennies etc. Anyway I had a few minutes this morning - didn't read the legend, superficially the obverse looked similar to some my George II counterfeit types , but clearly it isn't "Glorious Jervis" on the Obverse with a very worn bust presumably John Jervis, and Hira Rosa. on the Reverse over a Harp. Tried to find it on Numista (along with the George III Simian above) to add to my "collection" but couldn't locate it Any thoughts ?

Hi SilverAge3, I think it probably is a simian type (similar to - but in much better condition than my 1757 Halfpenny - which is more typical) a clear stick like arm It almost looks as if someone has stuck a cutlass into poor Britannia and then walked off and her foot is amazingly small as well ! Assuming it was made in the UK, being a fairly obvious and crude counterfeit, it might not have been long before the counterfeiters were rounded up and transported Very Best Regards

Hope you enjoy this one, I had to smile when I found it a couple of months ago. Just look at that eyebrow ! It now resides with the rest of my George III Half Pennies Very Best Regards Richard

I started to sort out my Victorian - Edwardian Halfpennies at the weekend. I say started because it took ages to pull together all the best examples. I'll need to go through them again and try to sort out them out properly identifying the correct die pairs Anyway here is (I think !) an 1861 Halfpenny where the 2nd 1 has been struck over another 1 (but no 8 over Very Best Regards Richard +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My first coin purchase was a George II 1757 Halfpenny bought on a Saturday morning for 50p from an antique stall set up in what was then our local reference library ... unfortunately there are no official 1757 Halfpennies . I still have it and a quite a few other contemporary counterfeits or contemporary forgeries from albums. You might have seen the following for sale on ebay It is a George III Halfpenny dated I think 1775 (its very difficult to read) struck over a Palmers Stagecoach token which would date to around 1797 SCARCE George III Evasion Half Penny Overstruck on Palmers Mail Coach Token | eBay Very Best Regards Richard

Hi I occasionally, rather than buy old PVC coin albums to search, I buy a large circulated "penny" accumulation. Invariably it contains all kinds of stuff with it. Typically very worn :17th and 18th century British coins; "modern" GB Farthings and Halfpennies (George V onward); coins that have been used to undo screws; 19th French; other non UK; tokens; plastics buttons etc Anyway as a means to relax I bought a jumbo accumulation which arrived this week. As always I do a first sort (pull out all pennies by reign and then I'll do another pass through looking for varieties QV - GVI). I also have a "dirty coin bag" on hand into which I deposit the worst of the worst ! I was motoring through ... reverse yep its a 1943 Half Penny .. flip over to the obverse .. ouch what a mess and reached out the dirty coin bag and then stopped to have a closer look Images below Hope you enjoy it ! Its been filed at the end of the half penny collection with other weird finds Wondered if anyone else still buys jumbo mixed lots of circulated coins to search Very Best Regards Richard