The Bee

1870 Penny E in ONE and 1861 Halfpenny Many thanks for all the above its has been really help. My example of the halfpenny (E over or under B etc) shows some wear and has been circulating (you can only just make out the lower limb of the E, the end of which crosses the B just under halfway up). The other examples (referenced in the link above) which survived in better shape might be more decisive Managed to sort l my pennies through to 1894 and weed out all the many duplicates (which I had piled in hopes that they might fill a gap) earlier than I expected. Which gave me time to have another look at that E in ONE from the 1873 penny. At first glance it looked as if there might have been a repair, but on closer inspection the lower limb of the E looks damaged and I don't think its anything more than a damaged E. I also had another look at the other 1861 halfpenny (above) again on closer inspection it looks like damage of some kind (both images are below) When sorting out the penny trays I have used Mr Gouby's book (the British Bronze Penny) along with Richard's web pages (probably been another 1,000 views by me!) to identify the correct (best I can) Obverses and Reverses Apologies but I had a couple of minor queries as a result and wondered if anyone might be able to assist ? In 1874 the Royal Mint "narrow date" pennies were mainly reverse "j" with a few "ja", and then in 1875 the Royal Mint narrow date pennies were reverse "ja" only. There are several differences between j and ja noted. The most obvious one (for me) being Britannia's hair. For j long hair and for ja much shorter hair. The second difference the angle of Britannia's helmet. I wondered if anyone has spotted any other differences in Britannia's hair, either on the j or ja reverse for either date ? (had a bit of ambiguity with my reverse j hair) And my second query, while working through The British Bronze Penny, there are examples given of slight doubling of the linear circle in similar places by the date e.g. 1874 H and 1875. Working through my trays I found a few possible examples including 1875 and 1892. I made me wonder whether the effect of slight doubling might have been a set up / mechanical issue ? Very Best Regards

Many thanks again for your help I will return the halfpenny to the discard pile ! I will have a closer at the Penny. I am sure you are a both right, it is most likely damage, probably random abrasion. Peckris is absolutely right, it can't be an F as there isn't a trace of a serif, even an upside down L wouldn't fit (had one been available) Very Best Regards

Many thanks Martin, that makes complete sense. The only example in Mr G's book, from the very rare reverse, had the date lower and it just didn't look the same Hope its okay to share a couple of other photos. The first is the ONE from the reverse of an 1873 penny. I wondered if the E had been repaired with an F, or whether there was just damage to base of the E ? (nice penny whether damaged or repaired) The second is an "odd" looking 1854 Halfpenny from my discards pile. I had found really nice minor repairs (I liked them anyway !) to another 1854, the letters repaired being DEI GRA. You can see the "I" and GRA) in the last image which I had overlooked previously, 1854 being (judging by the number I have found) an extremely common date, and had another look at "odd one" I wondered if it was damage (maybe heat) or possibly a die clash ? Victoria seems to have a raised jaw bone - the line of which runs up to her ear and then appears again behind her ear to the each of neck under her hair. Both the base of the R in Victoria and in Gratia (under the microscope) seemed to be joined at the foot which makes me think its damage Very Best Regards

Many thanks for confirming its 11.5 teeth PWA 1967 ! It could be a contender for Worst Penny Acquisition of the Week ! "Extremely misty" My error its more likely to be Obverse J as the B and back of Victoria's head are almost touching Reverse is just as bad - very foggy assuming 11.5 teeth with H over a gap exists as a reverse g that would seem to most the likely. Look forward to any thoughts ! Very Best Regards

1874H "H over Gap" 11 Teeth ? (terrible condition) Hope everyone had a good Christmas and Boxing Day Over here its been rather a misty and wet Boxing Day. So after taking the dogs out for a walk and eating left overs from yesterday, I decided to tidy up the various Penny trays weeding out duplicates and try to confirm obverses and reverses. Mostly going okay, reached 1874 and now as ever its the worn pennies that are causing the problems I found an 1874 narrow date where Britannia appears to have shorter hair and a very misty "Boxing Day" 1874H where the H appears to be over a Gap , 11 teeth or maybe 11 1/2 Wondered have there been lots of examples of this and what reverses might match ? (I think its obverse K)

Hope you all have a brilliant Christmas .... and once again many thanks to everyone for their help and support Best Regards

Many thanks for your help Martin, I just had a hunch there might be something interesting in the lot. This time I was right. On the outside of the flip is written Great Britain 1861 EF $50 (Initials M.A. on the back). But there was no mention of the B in Britt. Great to have it identified as a 6+G ! I'll put in the tray tomorrow Incidentally the other 1861 has something odd about the E in REG its probably damage but looks a bit like an L Great to get your thoughts on the 3rd halfpenny from the lot ! Best Regards

Once again many thanks for everyone's help I bought a collection of mixed bronze Farthings and Halfpennies, including one halfpenny for 1860, two for 1861 and several 1862's, these were the cast offs the auctioneer lumped together On looking at Secret Santa's Halfpenny Site I found an 1862 Halfpenny F over B in Britt. I started at 1861 and found what I think is the same thing On checking the 1860 I found it was a 1+A, but remembered I had two in better condition so on whim I had another look at them and on closer inspection. I wondered (just based on Britannia's hair) if one of them might be 1+A and the other a 1+A# Best Regards

Many thanks Bob, That was really helpful and of course sent me off looking at the rest of my 1860 beeded halfpennies I think every example that I have (I will double check) is 1 A and so far I have no examples the of 1* A While it might not be of interest, while looking for 1* A, I realised I had one possibly slightly unusual example of a 1 A (my second best) It has been double struck. There are traces of a 2nd linear circle, C T and possibly A in Victoria show doubling, the letters in BRITT show doubling, and the bottom of the R in REG is missing There may also be some slight doubling on the portrait of QV Very Best Regards and many thanks again for your help

Hi, Wondered if this might be Obverse 1 ? (I may have misidentified it) . It is an 1860 Beeded Halfpenny, one of the best (if not the best) early QV halfpennies I have What is puzzling me, when I look at tips of the 3 leaves at the top or front of the wreath, the lower leaf seems to extend only as far as the upper leaf ? Great to get your thoughts (it lives in the first slot of my QV halfpenny tray) Very Best Regards

Many thanks Bob, It will certainly take a while. So many Victorian halfpennies I find, really did their job and have had a good life in circulation. I had a look earlier this evening at Richard's excellent halfpenny site again. My 1861, I over I in Britt looks like a basic 7 G. While my much more worn 1861 reverse E could be obverse 6 Many thanks again Very Best Regards

I did see on an auction site last week a 1694 Halfpenny with the description William & Harry ... when Harry met Mary Very Best Regards

Many thanks - really helpful. I will amend the description to 5 E. I will have a look at Secret Santa's halfpenny Victoria obverses again and see if I can get my head around the REG F D colons, to help if I find more worn circulated examples Very Best Regards and thanks again !

Many thanks Zo Arms Here is the full obverse and reverse. I assume its 4 E Very Best Regards

Two or more bidders must have really liked it and wouldn't let go. Not so nice as the Great Collections example - I upgraded 1884, 1885, and 1890 last week. They were all around the same price, average £31 + commission + really low shipping (all the similar condition) 1885 is below "New" and "Old"

Hi Kipster, Yes looks like BP 1899 Ac (10 1/2 teeth from foot of 1 to front tail of 9). I was lucky enough to find a really nice example in a random auction lot the other week Best Regards

Q. Reverse E Halfpenny ? One last query is the image below an example of a reverse E halfpenny ? (possibly 4 E its an 1861) I assume it might be, as the lighthouse seems to be different from my other examples and L C W is on the rock above the date - great to get confirmed if possible Best Regards !

Many thanks copper123 ! Below I've attached a low res image of the obverse - with what looks like a patch of different coloured metal showing through the worn surface. Maybe the halfpenny was minted (offset) and then coated in something . Best Regards

Lastly on old halfpennies, below is another "back of a PVC coin album" find. Its presumably been struck off centre. I think its dated 1696 . Might have had a coating of something on it (you can see a different colour ? appearing through the obverse)

Many thanks for the confirmation. I'm sure others have better William III halfpennies. I have another example with super patina, really tactile. Though I think I'd be afraid of damaging the surface of this one with a cocktail stick. I'd need a lot more practise Below is the result of gently removing lots of old DNA and gunk from another 1861 halfpenny - I know its not valuable. It may be quite common for find, and of course there will be many better examples out there, but currently its the best I've come across T over T, R over R, and E over E (even the colon looks overstruck !) Best Regards

Here is the other A and obverse

Hi, I very recently bought a 1964 edition of English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins by W. C. Peck (I have accumulated quite a few earlier halfpennies and farthings) I'm trying to make sure I describe them correctly This circulated example is from 1699 . I assumed it was Pack 687, but on looking closer the first A in BRITANNIA looks to be unbarred ? (the second A isn't so clear but might have part of a bar) I wondered if this was normal for the standard 1699 ? [The obverse looks a bit better than the reverse] Best Regards

Brilliant Many thanks Terry and Richard, I'll add to the description that there is an R over a partly filled R in Britt (with re-cut H slightly higher in Halfpenny and 2nd slightly higher T in Britt) Best Regards

Many thanks Richard, I did wonder however is there something hidden under the R in BRITT. Could it be a R over a B possibly ? Best Regards

Just to add to the above below is a close up of BRITT. Under the left hand side of the 2nd T is I think a hint of a lower T Very Best Regards