New Edition Freeman Bronze Coinage

[Coinery]

I can’t seem to buy this book anywhere, not even here, any ideas?

[Paddy]

Yes - others have commented on the same problem. I guess the fairly limited print run sold out quickly to people who really wanted a copy!

It may also be relevant that the pages came loose fairly easily from the spine on this issue. Certainly mine has, and I think I saw other similar comments. As a result, any copies that fall into the hands of book dealers would probably not be listed as they are damaged. Pulped sadly!

[Coinery]

32 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Yes - others have commented on the same problem. I guess the fairly limited print run sold out quickly to people who really wanted a copy!

It may also be relevant that the pages came loose fairly easily from the spine on this issue. Certainly mine has, and I think I saw other similar comments. As a result, any copies that fall into the hands of book dealers would probably not be listed as they are damaged. Pulped sadly!

Have you heard of any re-runs on the grapevine?

[Paddy]

All the info I have is in the thread in the Wanted section of this forum. I can't seem to post a link to it, but if you go into Wanted it is on the first page - Bronze Coinage (2016).

[oldcopper]

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

All the info I have is in the thread in the Wanted section of this forum. I can't seem to post a link to it, but if you go into Wanted it is on the first page - Bronze Coinage (2016).

I've got the 1985 version (as has everyone else). Is there much new stuff in the new edition? 

As an aside, I'm impressed by Freeman's assertion in his intro that he had a collection of 60,000 Victorian pennies (acquired "randomly from circulation"). He would have collected these in the 1950's to early 60's presumably, and by then the 19th century Victorian pennies would only have made up a small proportion of circulating pennies with most remaining in very low grade. So say there were 10% Victorians left in circulation at that time, Freeman would have had to sift through 600K different pennies to weed out 60K Victorian ones.

So if he collected his pennies actively over a period of 15 years "from circulation" prior to his book coming out (printed mid-60's), that means he would have had to obtain 110 pennies EVERY DAY of those 15 years, each time a fresh batch, to sift out on average the 11 Victorian ones. 

Perhaps a more likely scenario was that he was able to buy large accumulations of pennies destined for scrap from the bank, but he would still have to get 600 thousand to sift through for his 10% Victorians, and give back the remainder to the bank.That's assuming the proportion in circulation by then was even as much as 10%. Most would presumably have been melted down or discarded due to wear and age before the massive 20th century issues.

Edited January 10, 2024 by oldcopper

[secret santa]

1 hour ago, oldcopper said:

Is there much new stuff in the new edition? 

A few of us contributed appendices covering varieties identified after the 1985 version, including those recorded by Gouby.

[Coinery]

Ah, well, who needs Freeman when you have Richard’s headsntails14 site!

It’s funny though, but my badly wired brain always reads it Heads n Snails!  

Edited January 10, 2024 by Coinery

[PWA 1967]

On 1/10/2024 at 11:57 AM, oldcopper said:

I've got the 1985 version (as has everyone else). Is there much new stuff in the new edition? 

As an aside, I'm impressed by Freeman's assertion in his intro that he had a collection of 60,000 Victorian pennies (acquired "randomly from circulation"). He would have collected these in the 1950's to early 60's presumably, and by then the 19th century Victorian pennies would only have made up a small proportion of circulating pennies with most remaining in very low grade. So say there were 10% Victorians left in circulation at that time, Freeman would have had to sift through 600K different pennies to weed out 60K Victorian ones.

So if he collected his pennies actively over a period of 15 years "from circulation" prior to his book coming out (printed mid-60's), that means he would have had to obtain 110 pennies EVERY DAY of those 15 years, each time a fresh batch, to sift out on average the 11 Victorian ones. 

Perhaps a more likely scenario was that he was able to buy large accumulations of pennies destined for scrap from the bank, but he would still have to get 600 thousand to sift through for his 10% Victorians, and give back the remainder to the bank.That's assuming the proportion in circulation by then was even as much as 10%. Most would presumably have been melted down or discarded due to wear and age before the massive 20th century issues.

I believe freeman had a deal with a local bus station in the sixties were he bought them all at face value , then went through them and took to the bank himself.

 

Edited January 15, 2024 by PWA 1967

[oldcopper]

3 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

I believe freeman had a deal with a local bus station in the sixties were he bought them all at face value , then went through them and took to the bank himself.

 

Interesting! 

[terrysoldpennies]

7 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

I believe freeman had a deal with a local bus station in the sixties were he bought them all at face value , then went through them and took to the bank himself.

 

What a good way to work out at the same time as collecting, he must have developed  a fair set of Biceps moving all that copper 😉

[SilverAge3]

I have the 2006 ed, hadn't even realized a newer one was released. I'd love to get it. I recently picked up the 1st ed of his older, much smaller (38 pages, total) book, The Victorian Bronze Penny (1860-1901), which I paid likely way too much for. I also see it had a second ed I may eventually seek out, just because I like my numi library.

Edited January 15, 2024 by SilverAge3

[SilverAge3]

I looked on bookfinder, using the longer isbn, to sort for this ed, and it finds no copies.  What a shame.

 https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?isbn=9780948964848&submitBtn=Search&mode=isbn&st=sr&ac=qr

[SilverAge3]

I wish they had at least made an ebook version available for this ed, since print run was not adequate.

[Peckris 2]

On 1/15/2024 at 4:10 PM, SilverAge3 said:

I have the 2006 ed, hadn't even realized a newer one was released. I'd love to get it. I recently picked up the 1st ed of his older, much smaller (38 pages, total) book, The Victorian Bronze Penny (1860-1901), which I paid likely way too much for. I also see it had a second ed I may eventually seek out, just because I like my numi library.

What is that? I have the first ed of his book on British Bronze, didn't know he had done just one on Vic bronze pennies.

[Rob]

1966

[SilverAge3]

5 hours ago, Rob said:

1966

Yes this. There was a 2nd ed too, but not seen any pics of tbe cover. 

It was a self-published book(let, but hardcover), only 38 pages iirc.

Edited January 17, 2024 by SilverAge3

[Master Jmd]

I managed to track one down for £23 on eBay in November after searching on and off for over a year. They do exist, but they're certainly not easy to come across (unless you're willing to pay £85 for the copy that's currently on eBay!).

This is the post I made in the Wanted section referenced earlier in this thread: https://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/14540-the-bronze-coinage-of-great-britain-2016/.

Edited January 17, 2024 by Master Jmd

[copper123]

On 1/15/2024 at 6:26 AM, PWA 1967 said:

I believe freeman had a deal with a local bus station in the sixties were he bought them all at face value , then went through them and took to the bank himself.

 

Seems unlikely that the bus station would go to all that bother then sell them at zero profit --- come on would you do it????

[secret santa]

Seems logical - they get rid of all the shrapnel with out having to lug them to the bank themselves.

[copper123]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Seems logical - they get rid of all the shrapnel with out having to lug them to the bank themselves.

Not really they would have plenty other coins beside pennies what about the shilling ,sixpence &threepence coins and halfpennies they would still have to sort the Victorian bun pennies  for Mr freeman and receive no monetary reward

[jelida]

I think the whole point is that he took all the bronze at face value from circulation, and I have also read this was accumulated through a Scottish bus company; these would have been common coins for them to handle given the average fare was only a few pence. Freeman himself did the sorting into dates/varieties and prepared the statistics (actual numbers in his possession are given in the early penny book). He at one time held over 60,000 pennies, a personal investment of some £250 and I suspect that the bus company was perfectly happy to help with the research at no cost to themselves. He clearly took the halfpennies and farthings too as within five years of his initial work he was ready to publish the authoritative bronze volume.

Jerry

[copper123]

I have done banking for a shop and I assure you every day you have to bank every coin from the penny to the two pound coins if someone had come into my shop and asked me to sort out say all the bronze coins till 1992 and offered me no financial reward they would have been laughed out of the shop , its basically a pain.

Of course it was pretty handy for myself when the undated 20ps and kews were circulating

Edited January 18, 2024 by copper123

[copper123]

Sorry i got what you said wrong - I understand it now - but just think of all those 1967 pennies - yuk ......

[Peckris 2]

3 hours ago, copper123 said:

Sorry i got what you said wrong - I understand it now - but just think of all those 1967 pennies - yuk ......

Possibly he started well before 1967? But yes, in time it would have been a real pain.

[SilverAge3]

5 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Possibly he started well before 1967? But yes, in time it would have been a real pain.

Surely this was a long project. He may have even stated how long, but I can't recall.