Penny Acquisition of the week

[jelida]

Not really a variety, but a 'missing leaf' 1860 F15, a really clear one with absolutely no sign of the absconder.  But clearly a die that suffered a lot of fill with much of the inner circle missing too. Several double struck letters that I don't see on other 'missing leaf' obverses, but interesting that so far they all seem to be obverse 4.

[jelida]

The reverse.

[secret santa]

I have made mention of this being now found on an F15 on my varieties website (without using your images).

Please reassure me that you are happy for me to make reference to it.

[jelida]

57 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I have made mention of this being now found on an F15 on my varieties website (without using your images).

Please reassure me that you are happy for me to make reference to it.

Of course Richard,  you really don’t need to ask me,  it’s to the benefit of all penny collectors and a bit like organ donation,  the presumption should be towards the greater good unless the donor has specifically objected.

Jerry

[jelida]

Not actually a recent purchase, but while we are on 'missing leaf' pennies, here is my F22 for addition to your list if you wish, Richard.

Jerry

[secret santa]

On 10/21/2024 at 11:31 AM, jelida said:

here is my F22 for addition to your list if you wish, Richard.

Apologies, Jerry, for forgetting to add this but it's up now.

[blakeyboy]

On 10/20/2024 at 6:47 PM, jelida said:

Of course Richard,  you really don’t need to ask me,  it’s to the benefit of all penny collectors and a bit like organ donation,  the presumption should be towards the greater good unless the donor has specifically objected.

Jerry

Should we all carry "RarestPennies"  cards?

[terrysoldpennies]

I acquired this rare 1901  Gouby Aa  with the second 1 directly over the gap recently . 😊

 

[SilverAge3]

Small upgrade to my 1961

[SilverAge3]

[The Bee]

1874H "H over Gap" 11 Teeth ? (terrible condition)

Hope everyone had a good Christmas and Boxing Day

Over here its been rather a misty and wet Boxing Day. So after taking the dogs out for a walk and eating left overs from yesterday, I decided to tidy up the various Penny trays weeding out duplicates and try to confirm obverses and reverses. Mostly going okay, reached 1874 and now as ever its the worn pennies that are causing the problems 

I found an 1874 narrow date where Britannia appears to have shorter hair and a very misty "Boxing Day" 1874H where the H appears to be over a Gap , 11 teeth or maybe 11 1/2

Wondered have there been lots of examples of this and what reverses might match ? (I think its obverse K)

 

[PWA 1967]

8 hours ago, The Bee said:

1874H "H over Gap" 11 Teeth ? (terrible condition)

Hope everyone had a good Christmas and Boxing Day

Over here its been rather a misty and wet Boxing Day. So after taking the dogs out for a walk and eating left overs from yesterday, I decided to tidy up the various Penny trays weeding out duplicates and try to confirm obverses and reverses. Mostly going okay, reached 1874 and now as ever its the worn pennies that are causing the problems 

I found an 1874 narrow date where Britannia appears to have shorter hair and a very misty "Boxing Day" 1874H where the H appears to be over a Gap , 11 teeth or maybe 11 1/2

Wondered have there been lots of examples of this and what reverses might match ? (I think its obverse K)

 

The picture is 11-5 teeth with the H over a Gap although cant be sure of the obverse without a picture 😀 👍

Edited December 27, 2024 by PWA 1967

[The Bee]

Many thanks for confirming its 11.5 teeth PWA 1967 !

It could be a contender for Worst Penny Acquisition of the Week ! "Extremely misty" 

My error its more likely to be Obverse J as the B and back of Victoria's head are almost touching 

Reverse is just as bad - very foggy   assuming 11.5 teeth with H over a gap exists as a reverse g that would seem to most the likely.

Look forward to any thoughts !

Very Best Regards 

 

[Martinminerva]

14 hours ago, The Bee said:

 

I found an 1874 narrow date where Britannia appears to have shorter hair and a very misty "Boxing Day" 1874H where the H appears to be over a Gap , 11 teeth or maybe 11 1/2

Wondered have there been lots of examples of this and what reverses might match ? (I think its obverse K)

  



I have seen a fair few of these and have a couple of my own, so not particularly rare even though not in Gouby's book. The die pair is 6 + G. [Freeman's notations]

The reason why the H is displaced is because the 7 has been entered closer to the 8 than on other reverses (the master die/matrix had just 18_ _ on it and working dies had the last two digits (and mintmark) hand entered, explaining the great variety of date widths and anomalies seen) and keeping the H central to these digits means it just ends up over a gap. Not to be confused with the very rare reverse I with wider, low date digits and H over gap.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Martinminerva

[The Bee]

Many thanks Martin, that makes complete sense.

The only example in Mr G's book, from the very rare reverse, had the date lower and it just didn't look the same 

Hope its okay to share a couple of other photos.

The first is the ONE from the reverse of an 1873 penny. I wondered if the E had been repaired with an F, or whether there was just damage to base of the E ? (nice penny whether damaged or repaired)

 The second is an "odd" looking 1854 Halfpenny from my discards pile.

I had found really nice minor repairs (I liked them anyway !) to another 1854, the letters repaired being DEI GRA. You can see the "I" and GRA) in the last image which I had overlooked previously, 1854 being (judging by the number I have found) an extremely common date, and had another look at "odd one"

I wondered if it was damage (maybe heat) or possibly a die clash ? Victoria seems to have a raised jaw bone - the line of which runs up to her ear and then appears again behind her ear to the each of neck under her hair. Both the base of the R in Victoria and in Gratia (under the microscope) seemed to be joined at the foot which makes me think its damage  

Very Best Regards

 

[Peckris 2]

5 hours ago, The Bee said:

The first is the ONE from the reverse of an 1873 penny. I wondered if the E had been repaired with an F, or whether there was just damage to base of the E ? (nice penny whether damaged or repaired)

 

 

I would doubt it, for the simple reason that an F would still have its bottom serif. My thought is that it's either die damage or a slight misstrike.

[Martinminerva]

11 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

I would doubt it, for the simple reason that an F would still have its bottom serif. My thought is that it's either die damage

I agree. There is clearly damage with the die crack and resulting blob of metal in the O so it is likely that the E has suffered damage too, maybe abrasion? Again, it is just possible a partial hand-repair has been done as was mentioned on one of your halfpennies, but can't be conclusive from this pic. A high resolution enlargement, if you can do one, might help, but Peckris is right that an actual F punch would have a bottom serif.

I think your 1854 halfpenny on the previous page is just the result of corrosion - maybe a cleaned detector find out of the ground. Acids in the soil cause all sorts of pits, blobs and effects to the metal. As an occasional detectorist myself, I have found many once-nice coins sadly similarly affected.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Martinminerva

[The Bee]

Many thanks again for your help 

I will return the halfpenny to the discard pile ! I will have a closer at the Penny. I am sure you are a both right, it is most likely damage, probably random abrasion. Peckris is absolutely right, it can't be an F as there isn't a trace of a serif, even an upside down L wouldn't fit (had one been available)

Very Best Regards

 

[alfnail]

[PWA 1967]

1 hour ago, alfnail said:

Going to end up common and anyone that wants one already have one soon 👍

Edited December 31, 2024 by PWA 1967

[secret santa]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

Going to end up common

I've still got only 18 of them as yet. Just added this one (with credit to Ian)

[PWA 1967]

33 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I've still got only 18 of them as yet. Just added this one (with credit to Ian)

Yes didn’t realise there was two types of F24 👍 Not knowing is the only difference the leaf or any other indicator please ?                                   Can ignore this as just looked on the website 👍

Edited December 31, 2024 by PWA 1967

[alfnail]

Yes, it is F24 with top leaf present, as per pictures below.

Interesting that in MG's book he says '2 Known' with top leaf, and '7 Known' without top leaf, whereas Richard's website shows more examples of type with top leaf.

I will be selling this F24 as I have a high grade F32 which will do me for my collection.

If anyone is interested in having the F24 please feel free to message me. For reference (£), I think it is similar grade to the one sold at London Coins in June 2017. 

[Mr T]

On 1/1/2025 at 12:51 AM, PWA 1967 said:

Yes didn’t realise there was two types of F24 👍 Not knowing is the only difference the leaf or any other indicator please ?                                   Can ignore this as just looked on the website 👍

Yes I don't remember this one either - filled die I'm guessing?

[Mr T]

Is there a .pdf of the Bernard Workman Collection auction available by any chance? I found https://auctions.sovr.co.uk/index.php?option=com_timed_auction&auction_id=26 but wanted something more offline.