jelida

It appears to be quite a nice example of a Freeman 6 + d, Freeman 29. The date width variations of these early bronze pennies are not avidly collected as every die varied to some extent, the last digit being added by hand. This one is by no means the widest found. No significant extra premium in terms of value, I'm afraid. Jerry

Can you test it for silver? If it did contain silver, very unlikely to be a forgery, the converse is also true. Jerry

More likely i'ts been in the ground, and leached some of the copper into an acid soil. Dug alloy coins are often underweight. Jerry

F10

Stephen Lockett started the bidding for the better 1862 halfpenny date at about 4K, so he either had bids to that amount, or the vendor upped the ante as that was above estimate. The VIGTORIA did well despite poor condition. Jerry

I got the 1860 F15 Gouby G (no line) for £110 and the 1863 3 over 1 at less than I expected to pay for a nice example. Those were all I bid on. Will post photos when we are sorted here in the new house. They didnt have enough power points in the sixteenth century and it will be months before the electrician comes to stay. Jerry

I'll be there, but not sure that I can afford anything, have my heart set on some DNW offerings (not pennies!). Jerry

Is it a car? This morning is a bit of a blur too.... Jerry

Looks to me like three incuse lines delineate the crosses on the shield rather than two raised, so its a Freeman 6, which is also the commonest beaded 1860 by a considerable margin, so not a surprise. Jerry

Beaded both sides I reckon. Clean Britannia's shield and left of lighthouse, cotton bud and water; will tell us all we need to know. Jerry

This is very typical of Saxby, who sells as many "Richard III" as Edward I. He is not a good advert for Ebay.

These sort of marks are frequently found on Victorian bronze (particularly well known are several on 1875 pennies and of course the 1897 O'NE ) and are thought to be impressions on the die from trapped grit etc, or early die flaws. Die studies have shown that they frequently extend to become more obvious die cracks. The positioning is effectively due to chance. Some were once considered possible deliberate 'privy' marks, but that theory has been discounted in the light of further research. Some do collect these, and better known marks can attract a premium. The subject has been well covered elsewhere in these pages. Jerry

The fact that it has come apart means that it is almost certainly a forgery, there are other posts on this issue on this forum. Jerry

That is a particularly nice example of a 'missing waves' penny.

Welcome William, this forum is indeed a fount of knowledge if you can wake the right people. I'm not one of them with regard to decimal, but a search of these pages with respect to a particular coin will often give you the information you require. Unfortunately there is no easy answer regarding modern copies, other than experience and research. There are usually subtle differences in style that an experienced eye can spot, and weight and alloy differences that don't help much if eBay buying. If you are really unsure, buy from a dealer with experience of the issue. But on the positive side, even on Ebay most coins are not fakes. Good luck, Jerry

I dont know of this product, but it sounds very much like the Lindner dip that was popular when I was a kid (many years ago). They do change the coin, not just remove dirt, and this is due to chemical processes removing tarnish hence the lightening. Personally I feel that these dips go a bit further than simple cleaning and into the realm of "chemical enhancement", and I dont use them. A good dealer or Auction House would describe a dipped coin as such, and view it as detrimental. Jerry

Fingers crossed for a rapid recovery Pete! Having worked in the NHS for over 30 years I know the pressures it faces, but for an emergency treatment it is still very capable and more responsive than most private alternatives. I do think the NHS has to revisit its roots and re-purpose and reform to some extent to survive in its primary role, that of keeping the seriously ill safe and resolving their threatening issues. I wish the politicians would keep out of it, and give the funding through a truly independant body of professionals and patient advocates. Jerry

I would not have thought it a year ago, but I am also starting to look at date widths! My obsessive tendencies coming through I suppose. I would have thought the simplest would be to state date width after the appropriate Freeman number, eg for a hypothetical and very rare 1862, F39 A 13 tooth. This would ensure rapid allocation of the coin as you say. Jerry

I would say that if developing the Freeman system then most error coins should have a precursor die which does have a Freeman number, and a suitable alphabetical suffix can be attached. Thus the VIGTORIA 1862 would be Freeman 38 B or C or D etc depending of the order of publication of other sub-varieties worthy of listing. This principle has already been used by Freeman in his later editions. Jerry

This coin has appeared periodically on Ebay for at least a couple of years, there have been much better photos in the past and the 1 and 5 appear very weakly struck. It was relisted several times at diminishing prices and finally sold to the current vendor for a couple of hundred or therabouts. He has subsequently listed it as if flawless, but then pricing and photos never were his strong points. It is a shame as the coin is otherwise genuinely nice, and high grade. Jerry

It is a forgery, see the 'check your change' site, they have been reported with missing 'two pounds' lettering. It also doesnt have the edge motto. It would be illegal to spend it, as Azda says. Jerry

I wonder if some-one has been playing with this coin post mint. By the look of the marks to the left of Britannia's plume crest the 'Two Pounds' lettering has been ground off. And I would be surprised if the centre had been loose as it left the mint after striking, though I have heard of the centres rotating. I dont think it has any value above face, ie £2. Jerry

That sounds a good idea, I would like a scan too if possible. Jerry

Does look like it to me?.

Thanks Terry, that does make sense. So a hypothetical 1914 example (as per Bob, above) would have perfect teeth. I believe all 1916 recessed ear have the broken tooth, so the liklihood is that only one obverse die was prepared. Jerry