jelida

Thanks Mike, it is good to have a name and know a little more about you - we do get some odd types on the forum occasionally, people join for various reasons but it’s good to know you are a genuine collector. Your latest find of the F14 is also a good one, you see them occasionally on EBay and in the auctions but not often and the circumstances of the find show that your run of luck continues! The next coin fair that I will attend - I almost always do - is the Midland Coin Fair on the second Sunday of each month, details online. It would be good to meet you and talk rarities - I have had many penny rarities unrecognised at the MCF over the years, and of course on eBay and also from foreign dealers and auctions - a look at Richards site will show that - and yes indeed they are still out there and you clearly put the hours in. If you do want to build up a representative penny collection don’t forget the commoner coins too, and the coin fair is an excellent place to find those, often at very fair prices. Jerry

You seem to be talking about this coin on two threads , it really only needs one. How about photos so it can be verified and included on the database, which will make it more attractive. It really is quite hard to believe that you have found all these great rarities in only a couple of weeks when hundreds of highly knowledgeable collectors are looking out for them - you haven’t just bought someones collection? Are you a collector or a dealer? Most of us on this forum know a fair bit about each other (including in many cases our actual names) as members of quite a small community. At the moment you are just a moniker. Jerry

Now you’ve got it, how about a photo?

I too would doubt that it is a VIGTORIA, speaking as someone who already owns one. The ‘G’ component is not large enough or the right shape, though I agree the blurred photo is vaguely similar at a glance. Don’t loose sleep over it. And don’t advertise or share images until a coin is in your hand! Jerry

Not if use of the alternate letter was intentional, as I explain above it’s just part of day to day maintenance of a die. And also difficult to prove it’s not just partial die fill of the lower limb of the ‘E’ . But it’s a grey area in that some collectors enthuse about mis-strikes and die flaws, incidental dots and dashes and the like. To my mind a true variety is a deliberate planned change in the design on the die, the flan (weight, metal composition, polishing ) or a significant accidental change through the act of man. Obvious date width differences might just creep in in the later years when die to die differences were rarer. And not all variations even if rare attract a premium, desirability to collectors plays a major part along with whether published or acknowledged by an accepted expert in the field (Freeman, Gouby, Sessions et al). Jerry

Personally I don’t consider the ‘ONF’ Penny a true variety, it is simply a case of die fill and I don’t have one in my collection. However as you say it was described in Freeman - though not deserving of a Freeman number- many years ago and this seems to have lead to it becoming collectable. Jerry

Die letter repairs such as this are fairly commonplace in the early years, they on occasion used a suitable punch eg F, L, I to restore a filled die when the full letter was not deemed necessary. Gouby covers these with examples in his book. When clear these are interesting but not especially desirable unless an erroneous letter/number has been used - P /E, R/B, G/C etc. Jerry

Yes, I would have to doubt the existence of a 1903/2 penny at present particularly as the author didn’t show a photograph. I’ll have to find the original article-it might have been an April Fool! Jerry

Don’t forget that with commission and postage the purchaser will have paid over £80. But these sort of scarcities rarely appear on the market attributed and most of us find them unattributed at coin fairs, Ebay etc when prices will tend to be lower. The LCA example is the only advertised example I can recall. The value is only what two interested buyers would offer on the day. Would I pay £80 for the LCA coin? Probably not, as a better one will turn up eventually. But £40? Maybe. The 1903 ‘open 3’ and 1911 ‘Gouby X’ are available in low grade much more freely now than twenty years ago, and the prices have fallen dramatically. But for VF and higher there will be a lot of competition; most of these C20th varieties are only really rare and valuable in the higher grades. Low grade ‘H’ and ‘KN’s are cheaper now than they were when I collected as a kid in the ‘70’s. I will try and scan the articles I mention. Jerry

These figures are taken from a series of articles published in ‘Coin Monthly’ in August, September and November 1972 and possibly other months as my photocopy only covers up to 1946; ‘Major Varieties of UK pennies 1902 - 1967 giving estimated mintages ‘ by V R Court. I probably have the originals in my workshop, and could check over the next few days. There are also articles in ‘Coin Monthly’ in 1976 and 1977 by A R Alexander which you may find interesting , though like the above mostly dealing with 20th century pennies. I also have a photocopy of an article by Mr Alexander where he discusses a 1903/2 penny he has recently acquired. Not heard of since, afaik. Again I am likely to have the original magazines in store and will see if I can find them. I would think that the 1890 penny is worth the money if it floats your boat. Jerry

Me too, over the years. But when you spot a genuine rare variety there is usually little doubt, they shout out at you. As you have shown they are out there but everybody is looking at EBay hoping to strike lucky. I have actually done very well at coin fairs. Jerry

I see he has revised the description to ‘not validated’ . I suspect others have offered their own ‘validations’. Jerry

Thank heaven the vendor confirms that it is genuine, not a replica! I rest assured 😄. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/198243354927?_skw=hammered&itmmeta=01KN2QEJGWGHJW8JGVRHXGCNZK&hash=item2e2839892f:g:EjYAAeSwwP5pzBu5&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA8GfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xCdMdsLZrzlKxQyLy1byZLX53r1elvuJN%2FF39HjSTeEV6eWM8XGXpL0nqXXF2nnpzem946gkjE36Mqqfd%2FcS%2FY04ocGPDJeJHJTgnZZRWylpSn3UcChX1ZfxgnWVN0cucnA4xdSNuaHzpYUrwuRDjrkDQveuTwjgPZTedsF7la4rPTS5YtWSWqxbPAxvxFqI824RBtL8fvyDZrLL5rlJgQl%2FHSHTi3ISEmZV2bPtZ5l17h3SfKg%2BBD9rdJz%2Fx44Kdm9o0hbtItqnP5YB%2FWs3MuUlSAXLUKm7Xq9x5WiQnvyig%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4aputeoZw Jerry

You will have difficulty finding any die detail specific to the Heaton mint other than the letter ‘H’ as the working dies were prepared at the Royal Mint from their master dies and sent to Birmingham for striking. The Heaton mint did not develop their own dies. And don’t confuse differences due to die wear, depth of strike, clashed dies etc as differing varieties. It’s a potential minefield. Jerry

It could be a filled die but I am not convinced of the presence of an ‘H’. Either way, I would want a clear cut example for my collection rather than one that will likely remain uncertain. In terms of grade, don’t confuse the UK grading system with the US Sheldon scale; their AU is more akin to our EF and their EF40 is about our VF. The book you need is https://coinpublications.com/product/the-standard-guide-to-grading-british-coins/ Jerry

For me the new posts are at the top, below any ‘sticky’ posts so it must be possible. Or you can always click ‘unread posts’ top right. Jerry

Note the publisher, Chris Perkins, has just posted on another thread on this topic, there are a few copies of the current Freeman available on the link he provides. Essential reference, and not expensive. Jerry

It doesn’t really cover the varieties at all, more to do with the history behind the coinage and details of its manufacture. Michael is still advertising it on his website Michael Coins. For pennies he has a book purely on the Victorian penny series and it’s worth enquiring as to availability, that does cover the varieties. The latest Freeman also covers most significant varieties but not the minutiae. Also possibly out of print, but these do appear occasionally on EBay. Don’t forget that the commoner issues are all still ‘varieties’ and by no means all are easy to find. Jerry

Don’t be afraid of acetone, it would be my first port of call unless the adhesive is water soluble. Acetone won’t alter the coin in any way. Jerry

Just revisiting my 1858 5/3 or 5/2, perhaps this was Bramah 25B. Pic attached. Note the limb to the left of the top loop of the 8. Jerry

Yes, some people continue to describe an 1858 5/3 for various nondescript overstrikes, doubling etc but it has long been suspected that a genuine 5/3 doesn’t exist. Perhaps likely candidate for Bramah 25B 5/3 is what Gouby describes as 5/? with the protrusion on the left within the lower loop of the 8. There has been suggestion that 25B is over a 2, though of course 1852 pennies were never issued and the survival of an 1852 die for six years until use is also unlikely. That doesn’t eliminate the possibility of an erroneous digit punch being used in a die repair though. Jerry

Show us clearer pics when it arrives. Definitely worth a punt at that price. Jerry

Somewhere between 2 and 3 grand I suspect, but could go higher on the day. It’s very difficult to predict for these serious rarities as it depends on the bidding of two people who have a gap to fill and really want it. Jerry

Well done, another nice spot. In general misplaced repairs with the correct letter/digit are not as heavily collected as those where the wrong letter/digit has been used, but do still carry a significant premium. Gary is a member of this forum, and is a very experienced bronze and copper collector 😉. Jerry

The lack of H was the first thing I spotted! And with the gap between R and I of BRITT this looks a genuine one! Stunning purchase, GF details for me, probably previously cleaned but still one of the better ones. Bosh ! Jerry