secret santa

In addition, the angle of her nose and upper lip differs between the 2 obverse R (Freeman obv 11) photos. All my examples of 1889 obv R (date width variations) have this double chin.

I've taken another look at the two 1889 obverses. Interestingly, I've found that the 1889 F127 which is recorded as Obverse R has a distinct difference to Victoria's jawline as mentioned in several of the above posts. This difference appears unique to the F127 as none of my other Obverse R coins seem to have the slight "double chin" and nor does the 1889 F128 (Obverse S). There are other minor differences around the eye and mouth. It does suggest that F127 has a unique variation of Obverse R, and that Obverse S is a modified version of Obverse R and not a modified version of the F127 obverse. Photos of an 1888 penny (obv R) and 1889 F127 (obv R) are shown below to illustrate the difference together with the F128. 1888 obverse R 1889 F127 obverse R 1889 F128 obverse S

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/146054935124?itmmeta=01J8NK13H2Q4NBQWMF3851N6DP&hash=item22018d7254:g:9cUAAOSwhApm9IB9&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmw85hwP%2B2o%2BgS5J2Hssq%2FShGwvLODe98Oq96G3i1Iz9JYDf4JZgJP6EsQoYwkO2KbG6ma2LJtqjmhfpK6V7jDi4Hmw4HxlkWkzdbkkTR3JcmN1SvLOsPdcnU9wX1fz3ts4gzbWciDsoLIjkFUeqMDnTDHO0fg2nICiNh7jiESxUSWdP4gwnXeFB%2F3JtOWHKgkT1YNbaE1--EHrekv5M1Vu6M476DpbpexYYvFrq09hFr4wbs8Kz%2BmVR9ysHVPJw%2FJC4QFwNcwUlWImcVazKzia|tkp%3ABk9SR8y4hLPFZA I have messaged the vendor saying that she has seriously undervalued this coin. A penny dated 1985 but bearing the image of Queen Victoria must be priceless.

Maybe in hand things are clearer but the coin appears to be in such a shocking condition that it is very hard to make any firm decisions on it. It is highly unlikely (impossible ?) that an 1874 penny will suddenly turn up after 150 years with a die number on it.

This sounds unlikely. I don't believe there is such a thing as a low tide 1874 penny, and certainly no die numbers. In fact, die numbers 2-5 are only found on 1863 milled bronze pennies. Please post a photo. For more details on varieties of milled pennies, see my penny varieties website below.

Courtesy of Michael Gouby

I don't see any differences.

Not quite sure what you mean by the eclipse on the middle bead - is it the tiny indentation on the top of the middle bead in the picture ? If so, then it will only be detectable on the highest grade specimens, and there aren't many in that condition, although it does seem to be present on all the obverse B coins that I own. It may well be present on my obverse A coins:

Spot on - that tiny remnant of the Order of the Garter at the bottom right of the bust confirms it.

Yup.

Done, thanks.

This was Michael's first book (published in 1986) and is useful as it covers Edward VII to Elizabeth II. The Victoria edition came later (2009 as Pete says).

Very difficult to comment based on that photo.

Yes, Michael Gouby lists many date variations in his book and I don't think it would be fair or acceptable to reproduce them all on my website.

Why don't graders include the Peck or Freeman numbers ? I suspect this has been asked before.

I see it sold for $780 - I don't know whether that includes commission but still a lot for a circulation coin. And here's another: https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-17DVEY/great-britain-bronzed-copper-penny-1797-birmingham-soho-mint-george-iii-pcgs-proof-62-brown which sold for $600. It appears to me that the 3rd party graders are being lax in their work !

Good move !

Oooops - my typo !

The link below is to a penny in the imminent Stacks-Bowers auction. It has been slabbed as Proof (with no Peck number) but I have pored through the various obverse and reverse designs of the recorded proof pennies and I believe it to be just a nicely struck currency 10 leaves variety. https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1CB8EP/great-britain-penny-1797-birmingham-soho-mint-george-iii-pcgs-proof-62-brown However, bidding has already reached $5000.

Thanks - now added to the website.

Richard Could you please post a photo of your 1862 F41 obverse so that I can add it to my rare penny site.

Please do.