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What a fascinating thread. I'm just going to pop this here. Written by the writer Michael Rosen. Which I found interesting.

I bought this penny for £80 at the Midland Coin Fair last Sunday, and think that it is an 1854/3 but the top of the 3 to the top left of the 4 is less obvious - though there is something there - and the hair is much crisper than that usually found. The curve to the the top right of the 4 is obvious, as is the possible lower tip of the 3 to the lower left of the 4. The colon after Britanniar tilts to the right as usual. So is this an earlier stage of the 'normal' 4/3 obverse die, or a second 4/3 die with crisp hair? The slanted colon on the reverse would be a remarkable co-incidence if the latter. Richard, you have one of these I think. Thoughts please! Jerry

Thank you Tom, for the research that I didn't have the energy to do.

Michael Rosen has such a marvelous skill with language and words....he can unpick things with clarity...thank you for adding that

An unidentified full-flan Rhuddlan Simon retrograde with a start price of 99p? Am I being overly supicious in not trusting this as far as I could throw it? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275741516660?hash=item403379a374:g:ScEAAOSw97tkDhac&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4CyTquAa%2F97BBtwMvOfbNj8%2FFNTLd4vOyUXdBdJo7u22PBB8R%2FA%2BuWMvNoVUKcPz6QqTL2KqQTJc%2BbJTS668TgbreA2DCF4PKiuvMR6khMg%2BjfB6c0jKdTU4wZQXeebJZXgRI381xFaKW%2BSS4YxhbCBJ4HQcPpGzbFO%2FW6mxSioWpGjJmLhE6vWK%2B14Mz0BKd30K%2Fd0NUXPjmzMi6juO7r3cRAgbGrPaANKY0DljCKifiJCPyjmDrqGwcO7tpy%2F71iqkw%2FjKkmP%2F8kDPEIvgSW7DYLZcMDsBO37LjvOI7aMx|tkp%3ABk9SR5jEirvbYQ

I’m afraid I was under bidder there, so cost you a few quid! I’m not too sad, as I already have several small date including one in very similar condition. But not a bad price anyhow, we’ll done! Jerry

Oh 100% absolutely. Gay people, gypsies, the mentally disabled etc. Some of them were early casualties. Anyway, I reckon this is a topic we're never going to get true consensus on, but thanks gents for a reasonable, interesting and civilized debate.

It's possible that desperate citizens of the world can see through the anti-migrant rhetoric of the Tories, and know that the vast majority of UK people - whichever party they vote for - are decent and compassionate as has been demonstrated so often e.g. towards Ukrainians (but there are very many examples).

I was trying to do some internet search for the likely many 1000's of fascist supporters who migrated into Germany from the various european and southern african countries. But I sure the number that decided on that journey are small by comparison. And of course the impact of Nazi germany's programmes did not just focus on the Jewish peoples I am sure many others could not escape because they fell into a category unable to afford the cost of migration ....instead ended in the death camps also

Skilled though Rosen is, I still don't think there is any realistic comparison between UK 2023 and Germany in the 1930's, and that such comparisons are extremely unfair. Just to show, this is a picture showing the flight of Jewish people from Germany between 1933 and 1939. The polar opposite to this country, where the argument is about the desperation to get in.

Things are a more than a bit different, I agree, and there is a distinct difference between selling and buying. If you list for, say, 10 days, your item is 10 days to the second from when you submit the listing, unless you schedule a listing to start later when it does default to 00 seconds. As a seller, you are told hours, minutes and seconds when your item will finish. I have been selling on ebay for 20 years and this has always been the case. Indeed, I always make a note of when my items finish to the second so I can follow the last few moments by refreshing the screen (as live updates have not appeared for years when viewing one of your own items). What HAS changed I agree is that they do not now publish the "seconds" finish on a still live listing to prospective buyers - only when a listing has ended do they appear as in the screenshot above. This is a big nuisance, I absolutely agree! Maybe they have done that to try to control sniping?? Or maybe it is just sloppy coding - eminently possible given how ebay has gone over the last few years. If you do get any reply or joy from ebay to your questions, do let us know here as things have certainly gone weird of late!

Not so, Mike. The "bids" list doesn't show the seconds that an item finishes at. For that you have to see the listing itself (screenshot pasted in by using the item number) and you'll see it was 20.16 and 42 seconds, thus the various "snipes". Listings rarely end exactly at 00 seconds unless a seller schedules a listing to go live later rather than in real time. The clock weirdness you describe though I have noticed too in that they are not always in sync. Suspect latency in our broadband connections, and not sure if there is a solution to that. Hope that helps at least a bit...

When selling on eBay..... " Extremely rare coin. I've only got 2 " 😂

He's not saying conflation is wrong, he's saying this example of conflation is wrong. An easy to spot difference I would have thought.

I am not that sure that conflation is a aspect of rhetoric that can be predominantly in the lap of the left!

I agree with you re. "trivialisation of the events back then", but please note that he never used the word 'Nazi' (nor, as Suella Braverman implied, 'Holocaust'). He was talking about the language used by governments, and the early pronouncements against the Jews in 1933 and 34 CAN be compared to some extent with the lack of compassion shown by the Tories.

Yup. But here you are using “racism” in its conventional sense. The whole basis of “racism” in the newfangled sense (which has been adopted by at least the woke left, BLM - and much of the corporate sector in the west - as well as the universities, civil service, military, among others) is that “intent” or “individual belief” (or ideology) is not a relevant. What matters is disparate outcomes (or participation) between racial groups. That is racist. In this way capitalism, the West, golf and the countryside have each been called “racist”. I dare say coin collecting is a little racist too by the same metric. Got to keep up with the times!

A perfect description of this forum...

Guilty !

Whoever they are, Rodney, they’ll be millionaires in next to no time with an inventory like that!

I suppose you just have to wait for Mr Magoo walking past and off load it to him hoping for the best .....

I am certain that many Victorian and Georgian coiners realised the potential of copying collectable coins I have little or no experience of these early copies here is a blog that may help: https://www.all-your-coins.com/en/blog/antique/comment-identifier-une-fausse-monnaie-antique My first examples come from Charles 1st a cast it is cast copy i believe of a half crown ; my second has been carefully made to deceive a clever forgery I think two silver Aberystwyth 1111 pence's merged together and then gilded The Half Crown weighs 11.85 grams and seems to have been constructed of 2 thin layers of silver with a copper alloy core

Meander away - but don't take offense when someone points out that what you are saying is not relevant to the thread. You carry on firing away with your definitions of "conflating" though.

Interesting word salad cut and pasted no doubt. Your comment hasn't got anything to do with being "critical", but it implied that "both sides do it so it's no big deal" Thus rather missing the point. And of course no one's talking about the concept of conflation per se, they're talking about what has been conflated and whether it is appropriate. That was the whole point of this Lineker story. If you can't see that.....