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...my mate told me that I needed a boy to help me in the workshop, but so far I can't see any advantages....

A couple of things. An observation and then a question. Firstly the observation responding to those criticising me for adding a letter after the freeman number. Taking F38 as an example (1862 2+g) is followed by F39 (1862 6+g). Since i added the only 1862 (3+g) which was not catalogued by Freeman - i cannot see any other way to list it other than F38A, unless it be F38.5. Secondly a question, so that hopefully i can learn things from your expertise instead of just arguing about toy aeroplanes. It regards the heavy flan pennies of the early 1860s. I want to know the following: 1. What was the purpose of introducing them? (Some weighing up to 16.3g compared with the standard 9.5g were surely an unnecessary potential extra expense). 2. Why are there so few of them? 3. Do you think they were genuine circulation pennies or do you think they were Trial/Pattern pennies which just escaped into the general population? Thank you in advance for your answers.

1930 missing sea. as far as I know undiscovered and unlisted . One for Richards list ! Maybe .

Very true, but websites have a habit of vanishing when the person behind it no longer supports it for whatever reason. Web archiving eg. The Wayback Machine does not seem to preserve pictures, and for coin varieties, they would seem to be essential. We have been talking about Joe Lee's farthingshalfpennyerrors.com recently, and also the about farthings website and others that are no more. Many years ago there was a brilliant website about threehalfpences and groats, but again now totally gone. A book gives permanence, even if outdated in time in terms of new discoveries. We still refer to Peck and Freeman as something of "bibles", and rightly so, the originals of which go back fifty plus years. And likewise, Gouby's has decades of pedigree. The best bet for me is both media - a book for a permanent record and ease of ready reference, and websites for latest discoveries etc. When appropriate, the latters' findings can then be incorporated into revised editions. ESC is now onto its 7th incarnation, I think, and still going strong. Website only research and publication will become totally lost in time, which is just a terrible waste.

All so amusing, and reminding me of a lost time when you could have, when we were all much younger, for example's sake, a model aircraft club. All the members swapped info, ideas, and build techniques on how to get the most out of any model they own, or have built, or are hoping to build. In the village there was The Model Shop. For many years, in the window, was the most magnificent model plane. An unattainable plane. The shopkeeper had to clean the window often, because our noses were pressed to the glass so regularly. Then one day it vanished.... Later that week, a kid turned up at the club, and announced he had all the models that Airfix made, and now also owned the Plane from the Window. We were all very interested and excited and couldn't wait to see what this new kid was offering. All we got was a promise of some pictures, but no plane to admire in the clubhouse, no chance to see it fly, no, we were told it wouldn't be seen again. Those in the Club who liked the new member were described as 'intelligent and rational', and those who though him a bit of a pushy upstart who really should know his place as 'bitter, irrational and ignorant'.... Hmm.....I've been here years, and I still feel an outsider, and from day one I've been respectful to members who know way more than I ever will about coins. Piling in in the way we have seen this week, and saying what has been said is like the dealings of a petulant child. It crosses a line with me. Just because Trump does it doesn't mean anyone else should.

I’m not sure that the answer is straightforward. Although this variety is listed in the appendix of the most recent Freeman, it (in common with other new discoveries) has not been allocated a Freeman number. In reality, the variety is no more an F38 than an F39 as in both cases the obverses are different and so it is not a sub-variety of either. All I can do is tell you what I do in these circumstances, pending a complete revision of Freeman. I catalogue my pennies by date primarily, Freeman number secondarily (occasionally Gouby No where he recognises the type) and in the absence of any published varietal identifier I write something like ‘not in Freeman’ and a summary of what makes it different eg ‘Freeman 3+G’ or ‘14 teeth’ or whatever. That has the advantage that it is universally applicable, anybody reading my tickets knows what he is dealing with. Jerry

Hello. This 1954 unique circulation penny was recently sold by Bernie Workman through Sovereign Auctions. In November 2024. I saw some speculation on this forum as to who the buyer might be who purchased this penny and a number of the other pennies at the same auction - and whether it may have been bought by an American investor. (I think it was someone called Secret Santa asking). Well i can put your mind at rest that i am neither American nor an investor - i am a private British collector who has specialised in primarily bronze circulation pennies for over 50 years (though i do now have quite a nice collection of copper pennies too). If you had designs on buying it you may actually have preferred an investor to have bought it, for as a collector i virtually never sell anything, and this penny will hopefully not be sold again or seen again, apart from being able to be viewed over the internet. I do believe that i have probably the finest collection of bronze pennies in the world (including the museums), though one or two of you may challenge that assertion, but my collection also includes one of the only 2 available 1933 circulation pennies and a host of other R19 and R20 pennies. Although i don't ever sell any of my coins as a rule, i am more than happy to share the collection with you through a link on here if anyone is interested in viewing it. Just let me know.

Re the heavy flans, I think the only options are trials or struck on the wrong flans, i.e. a flan used for a colonial issue. The denomination specifications are stipulated in the proclamation document, so intentionally struck on a heavy flan for circulation shouldn't come into it.

I am afraid the cost in time and verdicare would probably be more than the coin is worth , leave it how it is ......

So I've been at it for about a year now 1) I have been building a list of coins I'm missing and those I'd like to upgrade in a spreadsheet : Crowns to Farthings And then (like Paddy) 2) I've been photographing all my current Bronze and Copper date runs and part date runs and am putting them in Powerpoint That way I quickly open the relevant slide deck, Copper Farthings 1672 to 1850, flick through the slides to find a high res image of the current "best" obverse and reverse I find this an easier method to spot if I've found a potential minor or major upgrade [Given my collection is at the other end of the scale of the Penny Collection There is usually more opportunity for a major rather than minor upgrade, it remains a bit of a Spaghetti Western as in " the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly"] Best Regards

Hi H, both the last two are Florins = 2 shillings each. Previous post also - One florin = two shillings, not vice versa. Life is one big learning curve! The day you stop learning is the day you die, and even that may not be true. If there is an afterlife, what wonders might we learn there?

Might be worth getting a copy of Davies to identify some of the varieties.

I think this is out of sequence: I only liked him personally after he said that. 🥰 Beforehand, I was seeking to objectively explore the epistemology of dynamic systems of distributed knowledge and the potential contribution he makes to such a system. Also the concept of trade offs - as Thomas Aquinas put it - every (coin) acquisition is a renunciation. Perhaps you need to introduce an additional character to your fable - that of the annoying and snooty school swat. 🤣

It feels like a huge challenge. The British Bronze Penny 1869-1901 by Mr Gouby, sets the bar on expectations . High definition colour illustrations coupled with well thought out text are a powerful combination. I would love to see the same for Halfpennies and Farthings. But once you extend to the end of the decimal period, to do it justice, its a shelf full of publications, Your website feels a better and more flexible approach as I have no doubt more varieties will emerge in the next few years which can be captured in a website in a few days, rather than a 2nd edition printed publication. The 1905 smaller 0 is a good example (and jowly QV). Thanks again for the website !

The comprehensive appendices that Richard added to the last Freeman (authorised) reprint did incorporate the significant varieties-new dies, overstrikes etc - recorded until then, but did not deal with variations in date width, slapdash but otherwise correct letter repairs etc that Gouby does address. It was well produced and at a very reasonable price and quickly sold out. Gouby did of course update his text also comparatively recently and still offers occasional update pages eg for the (F15) R over A in Victoria, Medusa 1847 numbers . Really only Richards online ‘Pennies heads n tails’ is really up to date, including the new 1887 to 92 obverse. Any printed publication will age - though a ‘print to order’ version of Richards site would be wonderful! Jerry

hello Mr T, it was one i picked up and never seen one since... I get attached to some things and this happens to be one... glad I've been able to actually have time to sit down and learn more about such things, many thanks for the input... it all helps, Rgds "H"

There was a printed catalogue of the pennies only. They might still have some copies if you ask.

But will you be able to tell, without taking it from the packet?

Steve Hill of Sovereign rarities sent me a nice 4 page Word document containing pictures of most of the coins as a pre-auction publicity release. If you let me have your email address, I'll mail it to you.

Thank you for your warm and generous welcome, which is very much appreciated. My pennies are listed on www.penny-collection.com so i can now sit back and wait for you to tear my claim of having a very fine collection into pieces!!! I have read some of the threads on here and i certainly do NOT claim to have equal knowledge to many of those who post on this website - so i am very much hoping to learn new things from you!

Auction details of collection, starting at page 11, lot 186 online. Sovereign Rarities

Yes, further examination of coins reveals that, apart from a few (rare ?) 1889 F127 pennies with missing serifs, F127s plus 1890, 1891 and some 1892 pennies were all struck with obverse R* and then reverted partway through 1892 to obverse R which was then used until 1895 when the veiled head obverse was introduced.

Hi @Jigsy, Welcome to the forum! The penny you have posted has been messed around with by someone in a workshop, possibly on a lathe or with a grinding tool. Difficult to know what they were trying to achieve, maybe creating a double tailed coin? Anyway, this would be termed "Post Mint Damage" or PMD and adds no value to the coin. In fact this one is just scrap metal now.

I have now created this spreadsheet so if anyone else needs one in the future, pm me and I'll be happy to email it.