Leaderboard

I've just checked through my dates from 1882 (F114, F115) through to 1894 when obverse R was used and, like Paddy, my 1890 and 1891 pennies all have the fatter chin, but 1882 to 1888 and 1892 to 1894 have the normal chin. It seems strange that this slightly different obverse was used for a 3 year spell in the middle of a 14 year run. I've asked Michael Gouby for his views.

I've taken another look at the two 1889 obverses. Interestingly, I've found that the 1889 F127 which is recorded as Obverse R has a distinct difference to Victoria's jawline as mentioned in several of the above posts. This difference appears unique to the F127 as none of my other Obverse R coins seem to have the slight "double chin" and nor does the 1889 F128 (Obverse S). There are other minor differences around the eye and mouth. It does suggest that F127 has a unique variation of Obverse R, and that Obverse S is a modified version of Obverse R and not a modified version of the F127 obverse. Photos of an 1888 penny (obv R) and 1889 F127 (obv R) are shown below to illustrate the difference together with the F128. 1888 obverse R 1889 F127 obverse R 1889 F128 obverse S

The last digit was entered manually, whereas the first three are on the master. That's why you get varying date widths usually on the 3rd & 4th (not related to narrow and wide dates which are completely different. I know the coppers had a die with just 18, because one reading that went through Baldwin's, but I think by the time of the bronze coinage, it was normally the first three. So in summary, the 0 was just entered too high initially.

As everyone here knows, I am not good on minor varieties! But looking at my 1890 and 1891 Obverse Rs they resemble to 1889 with the fatter chin, but not the 1888? Is it that the Obverse R for 1889 and later is different to the obverse R 1888 and earlier? That is a different die and so not really and R?

In addition, the angle of her nose and upper lip differs between the 2 obverse R (Freeman obv 11) photos. All my examples of 1889 obv R (date width variations) have this double chin.

Thanks Rob. Useful as usual!

Equally, the bottom lip of the upper image extends beyond the top lip, plus the cheek has a flatter profile on one. Also, and I realise it’s exaggerated by one of the images being slightly tilted, but the alignment of her features below the nose are also very different!

Agreed, and the extra fat under the chin makes Victoria look likes she's put on a stone in the first picture...!

That 1880 is one of my favourite coins, because it was an accidental find, and explains a lot. I don't know of another. My feeling is that ten more need to be found, and it will then have known status and value.

Many thanks for the comments When I joined the list I really didn't think anyone would comment on any of my posts - being a relatively complete beginner I really like blakeyboy's 1880, the correction to the "0" is clear, I assume that followed on from my posting at the the top of the list Thank you PWA 1967 for the comment on the 1896, I had no idea it was scarce. only that its the only one I've found (obviously well circulated). It made me wonder if there was a practice at the Mint, when they has spare time (aside from repairing broken dies) they prepared a die with the first three digits and then just had to put the last digit in, but suffered last digit "creep." Or maybe it simply was done for bet / last day on the job / the heavy head after the big night before ! I wonder if there were letters to the Times about sloppy pennies ! Incidentally Newspapers even early ones were consecutively numbered for each week or day e.g. 1000, 1001, 1002, etc. But I've noticed when it got to Christmas / New Year this is the time errors creep in. You'll find the number doesn't change , or changes by far more than it should. On 1889, both pennies are in decent condition. These were probably purchases to upgrade and probably bought two by accident, rather than the one I needed. I know its a bit numpty, but if you look at the lower of the two QV's and follow the queens eyebrow up to the top, there a clear depression which has the illusion of being roughly triangular (head left from the end of the eyebrow then when it terminates up right and back down right). This has the missing leaf. The nose is different (the right side of the "triangle"-and the nostril is different , as is I think is the chin, possibly the neck, etc. Photographed at a different angle the differences wouldn't be so obvious. I only spotted it because like to handle coins and as I tilted it at a certain angle the sunlight caught it and I saw the area under QV's nose. If anyone has the time / interest and is able to share pictures of other extremes in dates from any year that you've noticed - that would be really helpful Very Best Regards and thanks again

I found this 1880 years ago, which i think shows that the Mint were concerned at some point about the 0 wandering up and moved it back down....

I think they could possibly be different punches. The top one has a bit of a double chin, but the bottom not. The eyelids look a bit different, the mouth a bit deeper on the top one and nostril more hooked on the bottom one, but whether it's down to depth of strike, I'm not sure.

This from the BBC website this morning. Interesting and very rare Viking penny from Athelstan II, formerly Guthrum, as King in East Anglia. Also discussion of the implementation of the new detectorist rules regarding items of National Significance. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg79e45341po Oh, and PS: For once the pictures of the coin are quite good!

I paid how much for that horse and its still not won anything!!!