More Pennies

[1949threepence]

Very pleased with this 1854/3 penny bought from the recent December LCA. It's in cracking condition and even has some slight lustre on the obverse. I can't do a close up, but I have enlarged the obverse as best I can. Shows the typical slightly blurry and worn hair appearance at the front, and clearing to more normal at the back.

The normal characteristics of a 4/3 are there in the date, showing to right and left at top of the 4, and then in the space between the lower vertical of the 4 and the left side of the cross bar.

There was a slight doubt as the hair looked better in the LCA pic, and of course they didn't do a date close up either. Took a chance on the coin based on description, and pleased I did.

  

[Peckris 2]

10 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Very pleased with this 1854/3 penny bought from the recent December LCA. It's in cracking condition and even has some slight lustre on the obverse. I can't do a close up, but I have enlarged the obverse as best I can. Shows the typical slightly blurry and worn hair appearance at the front, and clearing to more normal at the back.

The normal characteristics of a 4/3 are there in the date, showing to right and left at top of the 4, and then in the space between the lower vertical of the 4 and the left side of the cross bar.

There was a slight doubt as the hair looked better in the LCA pic, and of course they didn't do a date close up either. Took a chance on the coin based on description, and pleased I did.

Any chance you could do a close-up of the date?

[1949threepence]

38 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Any chance you could do a close-up of the date?

I can't but there's one on Richard's rare penny website - scroll down to example 13. link

[PWA 1967]

1933 Penny in the signature sale at Heritage ,although graded as currency and thought to be a proof 😀

George V Penny 1933 MS63 Brown NGC, Royal mint, KM838 (Rare), | LotID #62002 | Heritage Auctions (ha.com)

Edited December 13, 2022 by PWA 1967

[VickySilver]

That is a really wonderful and sharply struck coin, hard to see it as currency. This was such a dream coin - the 1933 penny - for me and so many others, sadly never to be. Interesting to see if any of the surge in values for coins will catch up with this coin or not. 20th century Brit bronze have not IMHO seen much rise in the last 5-6 years.

[DrLarry]

50 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

That is a really wonderful and sharply struck coin, hard to see it as currency. This was such a dream coin - the 1933 penny - for me and so many others, sadly never to be. Interesting to see if any of the surge in values for coins will catch up with this coin or not. 20th century Brit bronze have not IMHO seen much rise in the last 5-6 years.

I'm asking because I am interested in the motivations of collectors:  What is the motivation behind owning a coin where only 6 exist?  Of course I understand from an investment point of view but what could be done with it other than placing it in a vault.  Perhaps you would visit it once a week, or have it over for dinner .....once a year for a party but then I assume you would have to have security .....I know the feeling of finding circulation coins where the rarity of the coin is related to its age and its survival but then partly that is the thrill of the hunt, the discovery the spotting ...I'm intrigued 

[secret santa]

There is an indescribable feeling of owning a particular coin - any coin. Even if it's locked away, modern photographs are sufficiently good as to provide visual access at any time.

Some people may prefer to spend their money on holidays, or expensive cars - I prefer to buy coins - I can't really describe why and I don't expect others to feel the same way or understand. That's what makes us all different.

[mrbadexample]

47 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

What is the motivation behind owning a coin where only 6 exist? 

Because then I've got something not many other people have got. 

[VickySilver]

Exactly on the last two. I really love pursuing a rare coin, even if perhaps in an undercontested series but let alone in the series like the penny. No need to beat the chest but such coins really enhance and in some fashion "make" a collection. The stories behind getting these for some of us that are not "checkbook collectors" are of personal satisfaction and sometimes interesting even to others that we might share these stories with. Also, as Richard says, we do have photographic records and even write articles on occasion using these coins.

To be honest, I look at my better coins about as frequently as those that are just filling an "open" space in a series run.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, DrLarry said:

I'm asking because I am interested in the motivations of collectors:  What is the motivation behind owning a coin where only 6 exist?  Of course I understand from an investment point of view but what could be done with it other than placing it in a vault.  Perhaps you would visit it once a week, or have it over for dinner .....once a year for a party but then I assume you would have to have security .....I know the feeling of finding circulation coins where the rarity of the coin is related to its age and its survival but then partly that is the thrill of the hunt, the discovery the spotting ...I'm intrigued 

Keep it as part of the the rest of your collection at home. There are numerous unique and virtually uncrackable hiding places for items as small as a coin, which something so iconic as a 1933 penny, could be secreted in. But nevertheless still readily accessible for the owner who has sole knowledge of its secure location.   

It's not like the security options available for a rare painting.

Edited December 13, 2022 by 1949threepence

[oldcopper]

29 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Keep it as part of the the rest of your collection at home. There are numerous unique and virtually uncrackable hiding places for items as small as a coin, which something so iconic as a 1933 penny, could be secreted in. But nevertheless still readily accessible for the owner who has sole knowledge of its secure location.   

It's not like the security options available for a rare painting.

It's the forgetting where you hid it that's the problem......

[Rob]

You set out your collecting criteria and buy whatever ticks the boxes, irrespective of whether there's 1 or millions of them. I've got a couple dozen things which are either unique or the only one available, but also coins of which billions were struck, such as a clad steel penny to tick the eponymous box. The vast majority are somewhere in the middle, but all have equal status within the collection as value or rarity aren't defining parameters.

[Bernie]

The 1933 penny for auction is definitely a proof. It was contained in a proof set. I owned a 1933 currency penny for about ten years, to me it was just a date that completed my collection of currency pennies. I never cherished this coin, it was only a George 5th penny with a different date numeral. I absolutely worship my 1860 pattern pennies and can't imagine parting with them.

[DrLarry]

50 minutes ago, Bernie said:

The 1933 penny for auction is definitely a proof. It was contained in a proof set. I owned a 1933 currency penny for about ten years, to me it was just a date that completed my collection of currency pennies. I never cherished this coin, it was only a George 5th penny with a different date numeral. I absolutely worship my 1860 pattern pennies and can't imagine parting with them.

that's interesting 

[Peckris 2]

1 hour ago, Bernie said:

The 1933 penny for auction is definitely a proof. It was contained in a proof set. I owned a 1933 currency penny for about ten years, to me it was just a date that completed my collection of currency pennies. I never cherished this coin, it was only a George 5th penny with a different date numeral. I absolutely worship my 1860 pattern pennies and can't imagine parting with them.

I can well understand that, and feel something similar. Having said that, I'd be willing to pay up to £300 for a convincing fake made from a genuine penny of that series.

[VickySilver]

Thanks Bernie for your input; I would very much like to have seen the entire 1933 proof set intact and any paperwork or circumstances that accompanied it. 

[1949threepence]

9 hours ago, DrLarry said:

I'm asking because I am interested in the motivations of collectors:  What is the motivation behind owning a coin where only 6 exist?  Of course I understand from an investment point of view but what could be done with it other than placing it in a vault.  Perhaps you would visit it once a week, or have it over for dinner .....once a year for a party but then I assume you would have to have security .....I know the feeling of finding circulation coins where the rarity of the coin is related to its age and its survival but then partly that is the thrill of the hunt, the discovery the spotting ...I'm intrigued 

So what motivates you to collect? 

[1949threepence]

40 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Thanks Bernie for your input; I would very much like to have seen the entire 1933 proof set intact and any paperwork or circumstances that accompanied it. 

Yes, that really would be interesting to see.

[Menger]

11 hours ago, DrLarry said:

I'm asking because I am interested in the motivations of collectors:  What is the motivation behind owning a coin where only 6 exist?  Of course I understand from an investment point of view but what could be done with it other than placing it in a vault.  Perhaps you would visit it once a week, or have it over for dinner .....once a year for a party but then I assume you would have to have security .....I know the feeling of finding circulation coins where the rarity of the coin is related to its age and its survival but then partly that is the thrill of the hunt, the discovery the spotting ...I'm intrigued 

Why does rarity matter to collecting? 

“Rarity” (in the sense we are talking about) is not just “number in existence” (“supply”), but the combination of supply and demand.  In “rarity”, a common coin with a unique feature nobody cares about ranks below one with a scarce feature many care about.  (My daughter’s art is unique and nobody cares - it is not “a rarity”). 

Why do we care that other people care? Because that lends the thing an objective quality, as well as subjective. It becomes greater than our own predilections, critical as they are. 

Put differently, it adds value. That value may manifest in a financial sense, but to a collector it is greater than that. For want of a better word, it is “ spiritual”.  

That spirituality is what separates the collector from the investor, though we may be both. 

Amen.

[oldcopper]

15 hours ago, Bernie said:

The 1933 penny for auction is definitely a proof. It was contained in a proof set. I owned a 1933 currency penny for about ten years, to me it was just a date that completed my collection of currency pennies. I never cherished this coin, it was only a George 5th penny with a different date numeral. I absolutely worship my 1860 pattern pennies and can't imagine parting with them.

The last 1860 pattern pennies I recall were in Spink auction Dec 2015, both bronzed beauties, one the Roman date in a curve. Fantastic coins.

[secret santa]

2 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Fantastic coins.

Absolutely 

https://headsntails14.wordpress.com/victoria-official-pattern-obverses-reverses/

[mrbadexample]

18 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

I can well understand that, and feel something similar. Having said that, I'd be willing to pay up to £300 for a convincing fake made from a genuine penny of that series.

That's a part of collecting I don't get. I don't have the desire to replace rarity with fakes / replicas or whatnot. You'd spend your money and still not have a 1933 penny. 

[secret santa]

2 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

I'd be willing to pay up to £300 for a convincing fake made from a genuine penny of that series.

Done !

[blakeyboy]

On 12/13/2022 at 2:54 PM, mrbadexample said:

Because then I've got something not many other people have got. 

We're back to Reggie Perrin and the Grot shop, but it's true- a major major driving force!

[1949threepence]

In addition to the great remarks already made, there's one or two more tremendous pluses as far as coins are concerned. Once you have any coin, it's yours for life if you want it to be. You can look at it whenever you want, appreciating it, and maybe contemplating its history - what pockets, purses, tills or collections it may have been in. Same with all the coins you've got.

Once in your ownership, they will never cause you any hassle, annoyance or grief and can only ever enhance your relaxed moments.