Spink Stops Coin Dealing......

[Peter]

The value of a coin really doesn't matter (or shouldn't).

It is whether it is on your radar or not.

OK I take an occasional splurge.

Most of my purchase's are one's where I won't suffer any backlash if Mrs Peter finds out my exact expenditure.

I believe if a £5k special delivery envelope turned up on the doormat I might have a problem.

A 4 wheels splurge is sitting in the garage and is going to joined next year with a 2 wheel splurge.

So I'm not a coin big hitter either Peck....OK I would like to be but a £12.85 farthing turned up today and I'm chuffed to bits.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/George-III-Irish-Farthing-1806-/221317037083?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=sR1Lb0wNZxTcZk7FJ8g%252BP6Cqdmw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Rob]

Well, I'm very clearly not in the Spink market then! My top budget is closer to £500. In 2013 I have bought seven coins, two off eBay, two from a dealer and the other three auction purchases.

8 or 9 years ago all of those coins (respectable examples, two with a bit of traceable provenance) could have come from the SNC. Sure, I didn't pay £000s for them, but they are what I consider decent bread and butter coins that few dealers would be unwilling to list. As far as I can see, that market remains, just without Spink.

Sure, concentrating on rarities brings in the big money. But rarities, by their nature, are not frequently encountered. Spink may not want to be Tesco. But even Harrods sells run-of-the-mill items as well as the diamond encrusted iPhone cases.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one then! From Rob's comments above, it seemed that the 'average' 'middle ground' collector would casually spend £1k per coin. From what I've seen, there are members here who would and do, and good luck to them, but we're not all in the same boat.

No, I'm being taken out of context here. The middle ground covers those who would spend more on a coin than as if they were just buying a packet of fags or a bottle of Coke. i.e. spending more than just pence on washers, but not in a position to spend as much as it takes to win the lot irrespective of cost. The bit above didn't say they would always spend £1K on a coin, just that they might do so in the normal course of events. You don't spend hundreds if you can get something for £50, similarly you don't spend thousands when hundreds will suffice. It's also allowed to spend pence on a coin. If you spend a hundred or two rather than thousands, it still puts you in the middle ground - after all, you are spending ten, twenty, thirty times or more than someone who will only spend a few pounds or less on 'principle'. Frequency of purchases also comes into the equation. 10 purchases of £100 by a 'poor' middle ground person is no different to a single £1K purchase by a 'rich' person of the same group, just they have different priorities.

[Peckris]

The value of a coin really doesn't matter (or shouldn't).

It is whether it is on your radar or not.

OK I take an occasional splurge.

Most of my purchase's are one's where I won't suffer any backlash if Mrs Peter finds out my exact expenditure.

I believe if a £5k special delivery envelope turned up on the doormat I might have a problem.

A 4 wheels splurge is sitting in the garage and is going to joined next year with a 2 wheel splurge.

So I'm not a coin big hitter either Peck....OK I would like to be but a £12.85 farthing turned up today and I'm chuffed to bits.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/George-III-Irish-Farthing-1806-/221317037083?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=sR1Lb0wNZxTcZk7FJ8g%252BP6Cqdmw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

That's a beauty for the price!! Well spotted. My UK 1806 cost me far more than that, and that was back in the 90s.

Well, I'm very clearly not in the Spink market then! My top budget is closer to £500. In 2013 I have bought seven coins, two off eBay, two from a dealer and the other three auction purchases.

8 or 9 years ago all of those coins (respectable examples, two with a bit of traceable provenance) could have come from the SNC. Sure, I didn't pay £000s for them, but they are what I consider decent bread and butter coins that few dealers would be unwilling to list. As far as I can see, that market remains, just without Spink.

Sure, concentrating on rarities brings in the big money. But rarities, by their nature, are not frequently encountered. Spink may not want to be Tesco. But even Harrods sells run-of-the-mill items as well as the diamond encrusted iPhone cases.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one then! From Rob's comments above, it seemed that the 'average' 'middle ground' collector would casually spend £1k per coin. From what I've seen, there are members here who would and do, and good luck to them, but we're not all in the same boat.

No, I'm being taken out of context here. The middle ground covers those who would spend more on a coin than as if they were just buying a packet of fags or a bottle of Coke. i.e. spending more than just pence on washers, but not in a position to spend as much as it takes to win the lot irrespective of cost. The bit above didn't say they would always spend £1K on a coin, just that they might do so in the normal course of events. You don't spend hundreds if you can get something for £50, similarly you don't spend thousands when hundreds will suffice. It's also allowed to spend pence on a coin. If you spend a hundred or two rather than thousands, it still puts you in the middle ground - after all, you are spending ten, twenty, thirty times or more than someone who will only spend a few pounds or less on 'principle'. Frequency of purchases also comes into the equation. 10 purchases of £100 by a 'poor' middle ground person is no different to a single £1K purchase by a 'rich' person of the same group, just they have different priorities.

Fair point.

[Coinery]

Most of the things I want range from £50-£1000, with £100-£500 being the normal range for me! There is a clear 'next level' above the £1k spend, at least in my area of interest! I can mostly buy up to the shilling range of E1, and could sometimes stretch to a low-grade halfcrown/crown! However, I'm saving the larger denominations and Elizabeth gold for a future better time, as a fine HC does not really interest me...I'd prefer a staggering shilling or threefarthings instead!

[Colin88]

If this forum is representative of the collector base then we are exactly the type of people that Spink are saying they dont want.

[VickySilver]

Other than the self perspective ego bit, I can't help but believe that dangerous to them as far as their coin business goes. I wonder how many on these boards would take their precious goodies to Spink for sale now? Remember, coins bought in the late '80s and early '90s for hundreds of pounds may in fact now be in the thousands and it seems they will be taking a flyer on such coins...

[Geordie582]

Ah !! Oh for the Seaby days.

[Paulus]

If this forum is representative of the collector base then we are exactly the type of people that Spink are saying they dont want.

Just what I was thinking ... and I think we are representative!

[Coinery]

If this forum is representative of the collector base then we are exactly the type of people that Spink are saying they dont want.

Your E1 HC was/is beautiful, I wanted it, but definitely the next level!

[bagerap]

Ah !! Oh for the Seaby days.

Just what I was thinking. As far as I can remember I first went to Seaby's in 1963 as my father's runner, he bought much of his stock from them. They regularly trusted this spotty teenage oik with largeish parcels of coin to take back on the tube to West London, and then return days later with grubby pound notes in exchange.

Collectors in their late 50's - 60's will remember when quality coins were relatively cheap in the context of everyday living costs, even gold sovs were fairly reasonable. It seems now that a well presented coin, say VF or better, fetches disproportionately more than 40 years ago; even coins with a large well attested mintage.

Five years ago I decided not to play any more. I still have my Gun Money and Thaler collections, but for fun and profit I now choose to play with tokens and medals.

[Colin88]

If this forum is representative of the collector base then we are exactly the type of people that Spink are saying they dont want.

Your E1 HC was/is beautiful, I wanted it, but definitely the next level!

Thank you....its currently in auction next week

[Coinery]

If this forum is representative of the collector base then we are exactly the type of people that Spink are saying they dont want.

Your E1 HC was/is beautiful, I wanted it, but definitely the next level!

Thank you....its currently in auction next week

Good luck! I hope it all goes well for you!

[Peckris]

Ah !! Oh for the Seaby days.

Just what I was thinking. As far as I can remember I first went to Seaby's in 1963 as my father's runner, he bought much of his stock from them. They regularly trusted this spotty teenage oik with largeish parcels of coin to take back on the tube to West London, and then return days later with grubby pound notes in exchange.

Collectors in their late 50's - 60's will remember when quality coins were relatively cheap in the context of everyday living costs, even gold sovs were fairly reasonable. It seems now that a well presented coin, say VF or better, fetches disproportionately more than 40 years ago; even coins with a large well attested mintage.

Five years ago I decided not to play any more. I still have my Gun Money and Thaler collections, but for fun and profit I now choose to play with tokens and medals.

Nothing on the web about Seaby beginnings, unfortunately. But I thought I remembered (maybe wrongly) that the original Seaby began as a Spink employee? And Spink themselves claim to go back to the 17th Century as coin dealers.

[azda]

Where?

(null)

[Rob]

Ah !! Oh for the Seaby days.

Just what I was thinking. As far as I can remember I first went to Seaby's in 1963 as my father's runner, he bought much of his stock from them. They regularly trusted this spotty teenage oik with largeish parcels of coin to take back on the tube to West London, and then return days later with grubby pound notes in exchange.

Collectors in their late 50's - 60's will remember when quality coins were relatively cheap in the context of everyday living costs, even gold sovs were fairly reasonable. It seems now that a well presented coin, say VF or better, fetches disproportionately more than 40 years ago; even coins with a large well attested mintage.

Five years ago I decided not to play any more. I still have my Gun Money and Thaler collections, but for fun and profit I now choose to play with tokens and medals.

Nothing on the web about Seaby beginnings, unfortunately. But I thought I remembered (maybe wrongly) that the original Seaby began as a Spink employee? And Spink themselves claim to go back to the 17th Century as coin dealers.

H A Seaby worked for Spink in the decade prior to setting up his own business in 1926. He was helped in doing so by Ryan who was his main customer.

[numismatist]

Really sad how Seaby's faded away after 60 or more glorious years, they

were wonderful to deal with, but it seems some staff were helping themselves

to the stock and running Seabys into the ground . I remember Peter Seaby

some years after his father H. A Seaby had died, asking us the keep a look

out for some of his high value coins that had gone missing and if we could

watch out for , what certain ex members of his staff were putting up for sale

at the numerous coin fairs that took place in those early days. I did find out

later on how his staff got the numerous coins out , but the rare stuff never

turned up as far as I know . I think Seabys did random checks on their staff

but the secret of many of the missing items turned out to be " pretend "

collectors ( who were actually family members of the staff ) who ordered

regularly very cheap coins and lots of rare and valuable ones were slipped

into their postal packets ,thus avoiding the random checks. Very sad indeed

and I hope the perpetrators got to (not) " enjoy" their ill gotten gains .

[pokal02]

I'm probably another of the 'middle' collectors referred to in previous posts, and losing Spink (although they've effectively been lost for 18 months+) is a blow. Realistically I'm not going to save up for 20 years on the off-chance they'll have a Henry VII Testoon or 1834 Crown for sale then.

I'm finding, again like other posters, that auction prices, even for moderately rare coins (eg Tournai & Durham House groats, P&M Shillings) in 'nice but not wonderful' grade are getting silly. I'm frequently having to get hammered coins in, say, GF rather than NVF to get anything.

SNC was one of the few fixed-price lists where one could find many new & interesting coins every couple of months. (Many, although not all, dealers' lists & web-sites mostly consist of stuff that's been on previous lists & not sold - some coins stay on for years - I suppose this is less of a problem than previously now interest rates are 0.5%).

[Colin88]

Interest rates set to rise in January they're predicting...

[mhcoins]

Just home from Spink, maybe everyones reading a little too much into what they said in the ATG. They appeared to have a fair few 'cheap' coins on offer aswell as a few top end pieces in their showroom.

By the way i got a copy of the new 2014 standard catalogue today. They received a delivery of a few of them earlier, maybe a 100 or so.

[TomGoodheart]

Just home from Spink, maybe everyones reading a little too much into what they said in the ATG. They appeared to have a fair few 'cheap' coins on offer aswell as a few top end pieces in their showroom.

By the way i got a copy of the new 2014 standard catalogue today. They received a delivery of a few of them earlier, maybe a 100 or so.

So one catalogue, not split in two as discussed a while back?

Have you had a chance to look through it yet Alan and get a feel for how prices have moved since the last edition?

[mhcoins]

No its all in one book again.

Hammered gold appears to have increased by about 6-10% across the board, they also give a mention about the increased value of the Tudor and Stuart periods (about 3% increase on the fine values and 10% on VF). This is apparently the result of a significant number of desirable pieces coming ontro the market in the last year. Saxon up by 7% and finally milled up 5 - 10% with prices stagnating or decreasing in the lower grades.

Same old Spink, sitting on the fence with the values !

[TomGoodheart]

I have been thinking about this and wonder if .. we're just all A Bunch of Old Fogeys!

But seriously, I think, for me at least, there's a lack of perspective. For example, I occasionally work at a local Food Bank, sorting out items by best by dates to ensure stock gets used most efficiently. All good stuff, but I've noticed it affects my idea of what is current. As a consequence, I've been at home and looked at something and thought "Jan 2015?!?! Gosh, I'd better use that as it runs out soon!"

And the reverse is true of coin dealers. I spend so much time looking at old books and auction catalogues, I forget times-they-have-a-chang-ed! I think of Spink and Seaby, but CNG bought out Seaby back in 2001. And when I think of staff .. Stephen Mitchell left Seaby in 1987, Mark Rasmussen left Spink in 2001, Antony Wilson set up Studio a year later ... well, you get the idea. Coin dealing has changed and I'm not sure I'm not stuck in an illusory golden age where Dolphin Coins has some wonderful stock just waiting for when I next visit!

Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be ...

[coin watch]

I have been thinking about this and wonder if .. we're just all A Bunch of Old Fogeys!

But seriously, I think, for me at least, there's a lack of perspective. For example, I occasionally work at a local Food Bank, sorting out items by best by dates to ensure stock gets used most efficiently. All good stuff, but I've noticed it affects my idea of what is current. As a consequence, I've been at home and looked at something and thought "Jan 2015?!?! Gosh, I'd better use that as it runs out soon!"

And the reverse is true of coin dealers. I spend so much time looking at old books and auction catalogues, I forget times-they-have-a-chang-ed! I think of Spink and Seaby, but CNG bought out Seaby back in 2001. And when I think of staff .. Stephen Mitchell left Seaby in 1987, Mark Rasmussen left Spink in 2001, Antony Wilson set up Studio a year later ... well, you get the idea. Coin dealing has changed and I'm not sure I'm not stuck in an illusory golden age where Dolphin Coins has some wonderful stock just waiting for when I next visit!

Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be ...

Yes agree with this, times certainly have/are still changing, just look at the profit margin of an auction these days, no wonder the major players are concentrating on this market area rather than direct dealing. But then where does that leave the dealers? the like of which you have just mentioned here! I have noticed a considerable slow down in the amount of decent coins offered by not only these dealers but a number of others too....So where is it going? and more importantly what will be for the future for the dealer!

[TomGoodheart]

Yes. It feels as if it used to be a chain. (Or a pyramid or whatever ..) where people collected a few coins off ebay, saw that dealers had nicer examples and bought a few. Then a coin with provenance turned up at an auction and they maybe push the boat out .. funding their purchase from coins of perfectly acceptable mid-range collectable condition that they sold on or back to the dealers?

Nowadays it's as if auction houses expect unknown buyers to pop up and buy half of Lockett's finest coins. And for all I know, maybe that is what's been happening. But that causes two problems in that it leaves nothing for the collector who wishes to gradually improve their collection. And I can't help but think that anyone that buys heavily into 'prestige' coins with no background interest, could just as easily dump it all and turn to wines or classic cars or whatever the next investible turns out to be at the drop of a hat ..

Though of course, all the sorts of coins that used to be in the Circular can't have just disappeared .. they must be somewhere ..

Edited November 30, 2013 by TomGoodheart

[coin watch]

Yes. It feels as if it used to be a chain. (Or a pyramid or whatever ..) where people collected a few coins off ebay, saw that dealers had nicer examples and bought a few. Then a coin with provenance turned up at an auction and they maybe push the boat out .. funding their purchase from coins of perfectly acceptable mid-range collectable condition that they sold on or back to the dealers?

Nowadays it's as if auction houses expect unknown buyers to pop up and buy half of Lockett's finest coins. And for all I know, maybe that is what's been happening. But that causes two problems in that it leaves nothing for the collector who wishes to gradually improve their collection. And I can't help but think that anyone that buys heavily into 'prestige' coins with no background interest, could just as easily dump it all and turn to wines or classic cars or whatever the next investible turns out to be at the drop of a hat ..

Nothing for the collector one mintue, then when it's all dumped a flooded market and lower prices, sounds like a housing bubble!

I'm getting bored trying to find upgrades, for me I don't seem to look forward much anymore with new dealer lists, and come to think on it the coin fair too recently with very little to see other than the same old 'tray warmers'....So that leaves the auctions with the rare hope of getting a bargain! ok....But then there's ebay!........Nah!!