A very basic error by NGC

[Accumulator]

Plain trident?

If TPG's can't get the basics right... and it doesn't get much more basic... then how are they going to build credibility?

[VickySilver]

Wow, I really hate it when they do that. Damages credibility quite a lot.

My pet peeve with them is grading of matte proofs, both the 1902s, and later patterns and proofs that I have seen.

What are they thinking on these?

Not consitently high or low but all over the place gradewise.

[pies]

Thats very ornate for a plain trident

[1949threepence]

Plain trident?

If TPG's can't get the basics right... and it doesn't get much more basic... then how are they going to build credibility?

Doesn't exactly inspire confidence does it. If NGC can't get that right, what does it say about their competence with grading ?

Along with that ordinary 1862 penny mistaken for the rare ½ penny numerals, which a forum member drew to our attention a few weeks back, it indicates very slapdash work by some who tout themselves as experts.

[Nick]

NGC make lots of similar errors. I have an NGC slabbed 1926 threepence which they attributed to be a 'Modified Effigy'. Fortunately, for me, it's the much scarcer 1st type.

[Sword]

PCGS even has the cheek to state on its website that its guarantee does not cover certain "obvious" errors that they make. E.g. "a variety attribution that is obviously incorrect". I think they are rather shameless in saying that "A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale".

Does it mean that if they will take no responsibility if they grade a MS64 coin as MS67 (a difference of more than 2 points)?

[Peckris]

Plain trident?

If TPG's can't get the basics right... and it doesn't get much more basic... then how are they going to build credibility?

Cramming three coins into one slab is even worse

[Benny who]

This 1834 sixpence has been graded as a Proof

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3015&lotNo=24972#68426842199

however this is the same type sixpence with the missing pearls on the right side of the Crown

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/07709579

the second from PCGS is marked as a normal MS64 grade and not the proof,I own the second.

[Coinery]

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

[Benny who]

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

That's another worry,you think they are slabbed correctly,turns out the slab is faked so the content is also worthless,or worst scenario,the slab is correct,and it's a third party grader that's wrongly slabbed a fake.I think with the internet,more and more people will start to rely on a slabbed coin for authenticity.

[Sword]

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

That's another worry,you think they are slabbed correctly,turns out the slab is faked so the content is also worthless,or worst scenario,the slab is correct,and it's a third party grader that's wrongly slabbed a fake.I think with the internet,more and more people will start to rely on a slabbed coin for authenticity.

If you can prove that they have slabbed a fake, the more respectable TPGs like PCGS, NGC or CGS will compensate you to the market value of the real coin. For NGC or CGS, you can use the number on the slab on their databases and get a photo of the coin originally slabbed. This should tell you if you have got a fake coin in a fake slab.

[RLC35]

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

That's another worry,you think they are slabbed correctly,turns out the slab is faked so the content is also worthless,or worst scenario,the slab is correct,and it's a third party grader that's wrongly slabbed a fake.I think with the internet,more and more people will start to rely on a slabbed coin for authenticity.

If you can prove that they have slabbed a fake, the more respectable TPGs like PCGS, NGC or CGS will compensate you to the market value of the real coin. For NGC or CGS, you can use the number on the slab on their databases and get a photo of the coin originally slabbed. This should tell you if you have got a fake coin in a fake slab.

NGC only takes pictures of the coins that have paid the extra fee for pictures. Almost half or more don't have pictures. I think CGS takes pic's of all coins. (I think). They have had pic's of all of the coins I have followed up on at least!

[ski]

i bought a double florin proof from chris which was listed by NGC as an arabic 1 when its in fact a roman 1. chris was kind enought to confirm before buying. thats a basic error by ngc.

ski

[Nick]

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

That's another worry,you think they are slabbed correctly,turns out the slab is faked so the content is also worthless,or worst scenario,the slab is correct,and it's a third party grader that's wrongly slabbed a fake.I think with the internet,more and more people will start to rely on a slabbed coin for authenticity.

If you can prove that they have slabbed a fake, the more respectable TPGs like PCGS, NGC or CGS will compensate you to the market value of the real coin. For NGC or CGS, you can use the number on the slab on their databases and get a photo of the coin originally slabbed. This should tell you if you have got a fake coin in a fake slab.

NGC only takes pictures of the coins that have paid the extra fee for pictures. Almost half or more don't have pictures. I think CGS takes pic's of all coins. (I think). They have had pic's of all of the coins I have followed up on at least!

If you are referring to CGS UK, I believe that they do now always take pictures, but have not always done so. There used to be a cheaper option that gave you a slab and a grade, but no photo.

[Sword]

Not to mention they slab glaringly, and well known, pewter copies of Elizabeth I !

That's another worry,you think they are slabbed correctly,turns out the slab is faked so the content is also worthless,or worst scenario,the slab is correct,and it's a third party grader that's wrongly slabbed a fake.I think with the internet,more and more people will start to rely on a slabbed coin for authenticity.

If you can prove that they have slabbed a fake, the more respectable TPGs like PCGS, NGC or CGS will compensate you to the market value of the real coin. For NGC or CGS, you can use the number on the slab on their databases and get a photo of the coin originally slabbed. This should tell you if you have got a fake coin in a fake slab.

NGC only takes pictures of the coins that have paid the extra fee for pictures. Almost half or more don't have pictures. I think CGS takes pic's of all coins. (I think). They have had pic's of all of the coins I have followed up on at least!

If you are referring to CGS UK, I believe that they do now always take pictures, but have not always done so. There used to be a cheaper option that gave you a slab and a grade, but no photo.

Yes, CGS UK always take photos now. They used to offer the cheaper option (£2 less) only for coins worth less than £200.

[Benny who]

I think up until a year ago you could get the cheaper option from CGS.NGC and PCGS still have coins on their data base that aren't identifiable through photography,and it seems these are the slabs targeted.There was an article a few years ago with regards to NGC,and their knowledge of counterfeit slabs.

This might be of help if you find a NGC that doesn't look right;-http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954

[Benny who]

I think up until a year ago you could get the cheaper option from CGS.NGC and PCGS still have coins on their data base that aren't identifiable through photography,and it seems these are the slabs targeted.There was an article a few years ago with regards to NGC,and their knowledge of counterfeit slabs.

This might be of help if you find a NGC that doesn't look right;-http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954

link below

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I know of several 1877 pennies incorrectly attributed as small date in NGC holders

as well as an 1841 no colon penny attributed as with a colon...

This does not even approach the debacle of PCGS mis-attributing an 1860 toothed border farthing as a mule,

and being firm in their position, despite input from several experts informing them of their error,

and refusing to admit or correct the error...

[brauereibeck]

I know of several 1877 pennies incorrectly attributed as small date in NGC holders

as well as an 1841 no colon penny attributed as with a colon...

This does not even approach the debacle of PCGS mis-attributing an 1860 toothed border farthing as a mule,

and being firm in their position, despite input from several experts informing them of their error,

and refusing to admit or correct the error...

It's a case of horses for courses. If you have a British coin and you want a slab to validate its variety attribution then you've got to go with CGS. US graders just don't seem to have the depth of experience with British coin varieties. Frustratingly, NGC don't recognise Groom's 20th Century varieties. They only recognise a very few bog standard 20th Century varieties such as the 1902 low tide penny.

[Gary1000]

I know of several 1877 pennies incorrectly attributed as small date in NGC holders

as well as an 1841 no colon penny attributed as with a colon...

This does not even approach the debacle of PCGS mis-attributing an 1860 toothed border farthing as a mule,

and being firm in their position, despite input from several experts informing them of their error,

and refusing to admit or correct the error...

It's a case of horses for courses. If you have a British coin and you want a slab to validate its variety attribution then you've got to go with CGS. US graders just don't seem to have the depth of experience with British coin varieties. Frustratingly, NGC don't recognise Groom's 20th Century varieties. They only recognise a very few bog standard 20th Century varieties such as the 1902 low tide penny.

So how do you get a variety slabbed, go to someone else until you find someone that recognises it?

[Peter]

I believe I know more about my favoured subject than the TPG ...They are Jack of all trades and master of nothing.

[RLC35]

I believe I know more about my favoured subject than the TPG ...They are Jack of all trades and master of nothing.

Peter,

At the NYINC Convention recently, I asked a NGC Rep. what proof you had to have, to get a coin designated (slabbed) as being a specific variety, or from a specific collection (Workman, etc). He said a receipt, or collector's Ticket from a reputable Dealer or numismatist, stating the fact. An example would be a sales receipt from Colin Cooke, noting that the coin was from the "Edinburgh" collection. BTW...I think there is a additional charge for a coin being designated from a collection, or a specific variety, not known to them.(which would be a lot of varieties, in the case of GB coins!).

Even with their errors on coins of Great Britain, I think NGC is our best slabber! IMHO! Ha,Ha!

[1949threepence]

I believe I know more about my favoured subject than the TPG ...They are Jack of all trades and master of nothing.

Peter,

At the NYINC Convention recently, I asked a NGC Rep. what proof you had to have, to get a coin designated (slabbed) as being a specific variety, or from a specific collection (Workman, etc). He said a receipt, or collector's Ticket from a reputable Dealer or numismatist, stating the fact. An example would be a sales receipt from Colin Cooke, noting that the coin was from the "Edinburgh" collection. BTW...I think there is a additional charge for a coin being designated from a collection, or a specific variety, not known to them.(which would be a lot of varieties, in the case of GB coins!).

Even with their errors on coins of Great Britain, I think NGC is our best slabber! IMHO! Ha,Ha!

Thanks for that info. Bob. I must get a receipt for my 1860 BU Edinburgh collection penny, which Neil Paisley initially sent me on approval, later cashed the cheque sent to him, but never sent me a receipt. He sent one each for the other two, though.

Useful source of provenance.

[1949threepence]

I know of several 1877 pennies incorrectly attributed as small date in NGC holders

as well as an 1841 no colon penny attributed as with a colon...

This does not even approach the debacle of PCGS mis-attributing an 1860 toothed border farthing as a mule,

and being firm in their position, despite input from several experts informing them of their error,

and refusing to admit or correct the error...

They are surely just going on how the owner describes the coin, and either not checking up, or turning a blind eye. Nobody in the numismatic field at that level, could mistake a narrow date 1877 from a wide one.

It's not terribly professional.

[Peter]

I believe I know more about my favoured subject than the TPG ...They are Jack of all trades and master of nothing.

Peter,

At the NYINC Convention recently, I asked a NGC Rep. what proof you had to have, to get a coin designated (slabbed) as being a specific variety, or from a specific collection (Workman, etc). He said a receipt, or collector's Ticket from a reputable Dealer or numismatist, stating the fact. An example would be a sales receipt from Colin Cooke, noting that the coin was from the "Edinburgh" collection. BTW...I think there is a additional charge for a coin being designated from a collection, or a specific variety, not known to them.(which would be a lot of varieties, in the case of GB coins!).

Even with their errors on coins of Great Britain, I think NGC is our best slabber! IMHO! Ha,Ha!

Bob

I still feel a little bit better than TPG's