A blast from the past

[Gary D]

I don't know if any of you remember this 1905 shilling that I bought 18 months ago for about £30.

[Gary D]

[Nick]

Unless the first picture comes chronologically after the second, that's a mighty impressive repair (or Photoshop manipulation).

[Gary D]

Unless the first picture comes chronologically after the second, that's a mighty impressive repair (or Photoshop manipulation).

It's good isn't it. I can just make out the repair to the reverse but obverse is undetectable.

[Nick]

Unless the first picture comes chronologically after the second, that's a mighty impressive repair (or Photoshop manipulation).

It's good isn't it. I can just make out the repair to the reverse but obverse is undetectable.

Hard to believe it's the same coin, until you study the imperfections. A cracking job - who did it?

[Sword]

Unless the first picture comes chronologically after the second, that's a mighty impressive repair (or Photoshop manipulation).

It's good isn't it. I can just make out the repair to the reverse but obverse is undetectable.

Really amazing. Even the toning on the repaired bit looks right. Just out of interest, how much does it cost to get something like this done?

[numismatist]

Best repair I've seen to a " holed " Coin. It would be nice

to know the cost and time scale to get it done.

[Gary D]

Best repair I've seen to a " holed " Coin. It would be nice

to know the cost and time scale to get it done.

The repair was done by a guy in the States called Allen Stockton. It cost $100 which included the return shipping. The time scale was very long due to unforeseen circumstances. It was originally estimated to be 2-3 months but took 18 in the end.

[copper123]

VERY impressive! .

Surely you could pass that off for serious money now , was the plug all silver?

I have often wept at lovely coins with a hole on them- proper coin collectors consider them almost worthless.

[copper123]

VERY impressive! .

Surely you could pass that off for serious money now , was the plug all silver?

I have often wept at lovely coins with a hole on them- proper coin collectors consider them almost worthless.

[Gary1000]

VERY impressive! .

Surely you could pass that off for serious money now , was the plug all silver?

I have often wept at lovely coins with a hole on them- proper coin collectors consider them almost worthless.

Certainly a keeper now.

[Peckris]

You could display that proudly in a collection with all the repair stuff written up on your database. If ever you sold it, you could say "repaired" and a buyer would say "Uh? Where?" and cough up the readies, no problem.

Well worth $100 and 18 months wait.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Peckris

[VickySilver]

Was 18 months the downtime? Seems like quite a while though a decent product. Great examples on his website too.

[Gary1000]

Was 18 months the downtime? Seems like quite a while though a decent product. Great examples on his website too.

Allen had some family issues, a bereavement, then slipped a disc which put him on his back for about 4 months. Time went bye. I believe the work was done within the last couple of weeks.

[RLC35]

Best repair I've seen to a " holed " Coin. It would be nice

to know the cost and time scale to get it done.

The repair was done by a guy in the States called Allen Stockton. It cost $100 which included the return shipping. The time scale was very long due to unforeseen circumstances. It was originally estimated to be 2-3 months but took 18 in the end.

Gary,

I've used Allen to repair a number of coins, and you are right, he does a good job. The only thing I don't like is that he likes to clean the coins he repairs, which sometimes is not requested. Usually his cleaning leaves fine burnishing lines in the field. Not to much of a problem, unless it is a VF or better coin. I never give him a coin better than GF for repair, as a result. btw...if you email him every month, and request a update, he will speed up the repair. It usually only takes 6 months that way! LOL! Allen is a really nice guy. He is located in Kentucky.

[scott]

probably cleans it for a reason though.

looks better cleaned in that case

[azda]

Nice, but noticable hairlines now, seems to have toned in 18 months to. The black marks have gone from the original picture, but a decent job repairing it

[Red Riley]

That's a really good repair. Does he have a website? Not going all nationalistic now, but there must be somebody in the UK who could do a similar job. Perhaps a retired museum conservator/restorer? Or maybe the bloke that makes 1933 pennies out of 1935s...

[RLC35]

Red,

Allen's website is www.crs-stockton.com. He is a second generation coin restorer...his father started the business. He advertises in the "Numismatist"...the magazine of the American Numismatic Association(ANA).

[ski]

as a coin collector for around 45 years....i still believe in not cleaning coins. there has been many discussions on here about cleaning/dipping and there seems to me to be quite a contradiction with some advocating these practices and then others pointing out cleaned/overcleaned and dipped coins on ebay as being ruined.

the boundaries are getting fuzzier by the day, maybe its okay if not overdone, one mans overdone is another mans choice, whos to say what is right other than the prospective buyer. i will stick with uncleaned.

And so now tooling. weve read on here how it was unacceptable to one forumite when he sold on a coin that was later retooled, have the boundaries become blurred with this practice now more acceptable, this thread would suggest so

So to what extent will this become acceptable and to what point would a coin be deemed to become a fake, will we see halved long cross pennies rebuilt? or would that be too much.

I wonder if the unscrupulous sellers on ebay will latch onto this big time, in the same way we read on this forum about the ir full lustre unc pennies that are nothing better than fine. the danger then is that someone ends up paying prices akin to a non tooled coin for a repaired piece.

my personnal preferance....well i like the holding a piece of history thing, if its holed, its holed, the hole is part of that coins journey through time. I can choose to buy it or not.

all that said..........its a bloody good repair

[VickySilver]

Can't argue with one's opinion, but I think most would greatly favor the result of "tooling" in this case. This reminds me of the work done at archaeological sites in the early 20th C. wherein the original work was significantly restored (eg Sir Arthur Evans at Knossos). Would the site be as attractive just a pile of rubble?

Still, I back restoration with examples as clearcut as this. Obviously, an outrageous example could be pointed out but that is a bit defeating of this process whereby a likely consensus severely damaged coin is restored to acceptability. Also note this is NOT being passed as mint state...

[azda]

Ski i also agree with what you're saying and are possibly referring to the 1913 HC i had dipped. That was my first and only attempt, lets look at it this way. If you found an aging coin in the mud would you wash the mud off so you could see what it was?

That was basically all i did with the HC, it was basically surface dirt on the coin that would'nt come out in "the wash" and made what was a good attempt at "restoring" it's beauty without completely destroying the coin, unlike several ebayers whos coins look like stones after dipping for what can only be described as trying to gain large profit from doing so, i was'nt, i paid a decent price for the HC and made about 40 quid after fees etc selling it.

Cleaning for large profits is in my opinion worse than cleaning to bring back it's former glory, or "conserving" It's not a practise i do daily and not something i intend on continuing, i like lustre on coins and coins that have aged gracefuly

Peck, feel free to correct my spelling errors, also ski'

[ski]

No Dave I wasnt thinking specifically of your coin or you, just generalising . I started with cleaning as a natural lead in to tooling.

I also suggested that one mans view is different to another, and that's good for discussion.

I do feel that there's a difference between cleaning a muddy old coin that's found and of little value to discover what it is, compared with cleaning a coin to dupe some poor soul out of his hard earned cash. And that's my concern with tooling and where it will lead.

Ski

[Peckris]

No Dave I wasnt thinking specifically of your coin or you, just generalising . I started with cleaning as a natural lead in to tooling.

I also suggested that one mans view is different to another, and that's good for discussion.

I do feel that there's a difference between cleaning a muddy old coin that's found and of little value to discover what it is, compared with cleaning a coin to dupe some poor soul out of his hard earned cash. And that's my concern with tooling and where it will lead.

Ski

Generally I agree with your points ski. But Dave's 1913 HC was an example of how dipping can be done properly (BRIEFLY!!) and it certainly improved the coin. As for Gary's shilling, it's a major rarity in that grade, and I'd have probably done the same just for the pleasure of owning it. If Gary ever sold it he would let the buyer know about the repair, but there's no guarantee that the buyer would be equally honest if selling on in his turn.

Cleaning is always a risk, so is repairing. But ask yourself, would you rather have a coin that's been sensitively cleaned or repaired virtually without a trace, or a fake?

[DaveG38]

No Dave I wasnt thinking specifically of your coin or you, just generalising . I started with cleaning as a natural lead in to tooling.

I also suggested that one mans view is different to another, and that's good for discussion.

I do feel that there's a difference between cleaning a muddy old coin that's found and of little value to discover what it is, compared with cleaning a coin to dupe some poor soul out of his hard earned cash. And that's my concern with tooling and where it will lead.

Ski

I'd probably agree in most situations and for most coins. However, let's say I've just picked up an uncirculated 1854 sixpence, shilling or florin for a lowish price on account of the bloody great hole some idiot has drilled in it. I can either live with the hole or I can spend a modest amount to bring that coin back to almost newly minted condition. To be honest, I'd be tempted to have it repaired given the quality of the repair.