A comparison of two auction houses

[Paddy]

I decided to splash out on a few coins last week and ended winning lots at two different auction houses:

Auction One on Thursday (I will not reveal the name for fear of being accused of libel):

I won two lots totalling £265 before commission,
Commission 30% including VAT
Confirmation of lots won received same day but with requirement to create account at auctionet, so I did that.
Links to invoices received next day (Friday) - two separate invoices.
Logged into auctionet to request postage. Could only be done separately for each lot. Total £39 for two tiny coins.
Spoke to auction house - had to email auctionet to get the invoices combined, so did that.
Received reply Monday - complicated explanation as to how to request combined invoice through the auctionet website. For this they would give me a "generous" discount of 30% on the postage, bringing it down to £27.30. Oh, and they would post within the next 1 to 3 weeks.
At this point I cancelled shipping requests and paid the total for the coins and commission. That had to be done as two separate transactions on my card and required me to log out of auctionet between transactions before the second transaction would process. I have now arranged a friend to pick up the coins in the next few weeks and I will get them when we next meet up.

Auction two on Saturday (The Coinery - happy to reveal their name as service was impeccable):

I won 5 lots totalling £585 before commission,
Commission 19.2% including VAT
Invoice for all lots combined, including postage, received a couple of hours after the auction finished.
Postage £13.15 plus VAT,
Paid that evening by bank transfer.
Confirmation of receipt of payment and postage received first thing Monday morning.
Coins received by Special delivery, all correct, Tuesday Lunchtime.

Needless to say, Auction house One is now off my favoured list! The Coinery I will happily use again and recommend to anyone.

[VickySilver]

I have been happy with Coinery auctions but have only won a coin or two from them. I like their business model, but am limited by the offerings not being in my area. I recently made a substantial purchase at one of the major London auctions by a recognized firm - also unnamed - and paid about 30% in commission and fees which really substantially raised the price on a fairly expensive item. If I didn't "need" this piece I would have factored these costs and NOT bought the coin....

[Coinery]

Is that the same The Coinery from this forum?

[Paddy]

2 minutes ago, Coinery said:

Is that the same The Coinery from this forum?

I don't know - I hope so.

 

[secret santa]

3 hours ago, Paddy said:

I don't know - I hope so.

I don't think so. 

[Paddy]

I see @The Coinery last visited in 2017, so even if they are related to the auction house, they are unlikely to notice the comments here!

 

[Menger]

Buyer’s premium is a misnomer as it is paid by the vendor.  Vendors need to consider BP carefully to assess whether it correctly represents value added by the auction house. Buyers can be indifferent as they don’t pay it anyhows. 

[secret santa]

24 minutes ago, Paddy said:

I see @The Coinery last visited in 2017, so even if they are related to the auction house, they are unlikely to notice the comments here!

 

I got confused - I believe that he is Guy Fornquerne (or Guy Fie) from the Coinery Auction.

[Paddy]

4 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I got confused - I believe that he is Guy Fornquerne (or Guy Fie) from the Coinery Auction.

Yes - Guy is the chap running The Coinery auction. The bank transfer was to his account. I have no idea if Guy is on here somewhere.

 

[Coinery]

45 minutes ago, Paddy said:

I see @The Coinery last visited in 2017, so even if they are related to the auction house, they are unlikely to notice the comments here!

 

I can barely believe it was that long ago I had to draw swords with an adversary! Wow, six years! I did fair take him in the joust and run him through with my sword!

May the vanquished return so I might bid him well and wish him great merriment throughout this Christmas season!

Compliments of the upcoming season to all! 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Coinery

[Coinery]

3 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Yes - Guy is the chap running The Coinery auction. The bank transfer was to his account. I have no idea if Guy is on here somewhere.

 

Interestingly the name Richard also popped up when I was subscribing?

[Paddy]

5 minutes ago, Coinery said:

Interestingly the name Richard also popped up when I was subscribing?

The auctioneer introduced himself as Richard something, but I cannot remember what surname he gave. I just assumed both Richard and Guy are involved in the operation.

[Coinery]

Guy Fornquerne? Dear god is the blaggard French, the scoundrel…step forth and give account of yourself before I run you through with my bow of yew!  

[Kipster]

Guy Fonquernie and Richard Regnier both run it. Guy has some unbelievable pieces in his collection and is a penny collecting man. Richard does the silver side of things. They haven't updated any stock on their website for at least a year, so probably concentrating on auctions now.

[Rob]

They were both at Huddersfield on Sunday, as usual.

[Bruce]

Richard is the main contact point for all email communications, while name of Guy is only seen on doing the bank transfer, according to the experience before.

[jelida]

Guy bought the unc  lustrous 1882 no H F112 penny for upper 30’s K a couple of years back. Very keen penny collector. I have had some lovely purchases from his auctions, including an EF 1827 penny at good prices. Really decent bloke, often at the MCF.

Jerry

[Kipster]

9 hours ago, jelida said:

Guy bought the unc  lustrous 1882 no H F112 penny for upper 30’s K a couple of years back. Very keen penny collector. I have had some lovely purchases from his auctions, including an EF 1827 penny at good prices. Really decent bloke, often at the MCF.

Jerry

And that one is an absolute stunner. Ir was CGS graded and I believe it was regraded by NGC as MS64. Looked far better to me.

[Paddy]

Lots of great comments about The Coinery - I have sent them a link to this topic for their information.

No comment on the appalling experience with Auction One - do I take it that this form of poor customer service and over-charging is taken as normal?

 

[TomGoodheart]

Was the first a large auction house? I'm bemused by the need to register with auctionet afterwards. How difficult is it to have someone take card payments over the phone, particularly as you presumably were able to bid without doing so? Sounds overly complicated!

 

16 hours ago, Menger said:

Buyer’s premium is a misnomer as it is paid by the vendor.  Vendors need to consider BP carefully to assess whether it correctly represents value added by the auction house. Buyers can be indifferent as they don’t pay it anyhows. 

?? Surely, buyer's premium is added to the hammer cost. So it's something that I do have to pay (plus vat) as a buyer. And take into consideration when bidding.
I also bear it in mind when reviewing what level of 'service' I feel I've received, such as speed and cost of dispatch and the level of care taken to safely package my purchases. That the seller might not get as much because everyone is adjusting their bids down by 30% is of course also an issue.

[Fubar]

1 hour ago, TomGoodheart said:

?? Surely, buyer's premium is added to the hammer cost. So it's something that I do have to pay (plus vat) as a buyer. And take into consideration when bidding.
I also bear it in mind when reviewing what level of 'service' I feel I've received, such as speed and cost of dispatch and the level of care taken to safely package my purchases. That the seller might not get as much because everyone is adjusting their bids down by 30% is of course also an issue.

In the UK the auction houses charge the same commission to the vendor and the purchaser "usually". So they make it on both ends of the deal. Some USA auction houses are now advertising the you only pay the hammer price. I haven't noticed this in the UK - yet.

[Paddy]

1 hour ago, TomGoodheart said:

Was the first a large auction house? I'm bemused by the need to register with auctionet afterwards. How difficult is it to have someone take card payments over the phone, particularly as you presumably were able to bid without doing so? Sounds overly complicated!
 

Yes, the first auction house was quite a large one - long established and holding posh sales roughly monthly as well as clearance sales fortnightly. Until fairly recently they were family owned but I believe they have been bought out and this maybe why auctionet has entered the scene. They only do coin auctions once a year - I hope they have got themselves sorted out before the next one.

[secret santa]

18 hours ago, Menger said:

Buyer’s premium is a misnomer as it is paid by the vendor.  Vendors need to consider BP carefully to assess whether it correctly represents value added by the auction house. Buyers can be indifferent as they don’t pay it anyhows. 

I have to disagree with this. It is possible to negotiate (sometimes to zero) the seller's premium with some auction houses, in which case the seller gets the hammer price and the auction house covers its costs through the buyer's premium (commission).

[Menger]

35 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I have to disagree with this. It is possible to negotiate (sometimes to zero) the seller's premium with some auction houses, in which case the seller gets the hammer price and the auction house covers its costs through the buyer's premium (commission).

I did not mention Seller’s Premium - but Seller pays that too (if any).  Buyer’s Premium is technically paid by Buyer but effectively paid by Seller as it is a cost deducted from the market price of Seller’s coin.  That is why it makes little sense for Buyers to bemoan Buyer’s Premium rates and every sense for Sellers to do so (if they feel the rates don’t represent the value the auction house brings - through its reputation, market presence, photography, bidding system and wot not - in other words the increase in market price).  

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Menger

[Menger]

2 hours ago, TomGoodheart said:

Was the first a large auction house? I'm bemused by the need to register with auctionet afterwards. How difficult is it to have someone take card payments over the phone, particularly as you presumably were able to bid without doing so? Sounds overly complicated!

 

?? Surely, buyer's premium is added to the hammer cost. So it's something that I do have to pay (plus vat) as a buyer. And take into consideration when bidding.
I also bear it in mind when reviewing what level of 'service' I feel I've received, such as speed and cost of dispatch and the level of care taken to safely package my purchases. That the seller might not get as much because everyone is adjusting their bids down by 30% is of course also an issue.

Buyer pays market price. Seller gets market price less all deductions, taxes and wot not.