It's amazing what photography can do!?

[oldcopper]

Just spotted this at Atlas: anyone recognise it? (trick question, I do): a snip at $14,500 for the discerning collector PR65BN.

[oldcopper]

Put us all out of our misery:

[PWA 1967]

Yes i had aleady seen it ,its the LCA one.

Posted your other picture at the same time 😀

Edited April 21, 2022 by PWA 1967

[oldcopper]

11 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Yes i had aleady seen it ,its the LCA one.

Posted your other picture at the same time 😀

Yes, shame the blue toner has added >$10K to the price!

[blakeyboy]

This is madness....

[copper123]

 

Madness, madness, they call it madness
Madness, madness, they call it madness
It's plain to see
That is what they mean to me
Madness, madness, they call it gladness, ha-ha

Madness, madness, they call it madness
Madness, madness, they call it madness
I'm about to explain
A-That someone is losing their brain
Hey, madness, madness, I call it gladness, yee-ha-ha-ha

Propaganda ministers
Propaganda ministers
I've a-got a heavy due
I'm gonna walk all over you
'Cause

Madness, madness, they call it madness
Well if this is madness
Then I know I'm filled with gladness
It's gonna be rougher
It's gonna be tougher, pa-da-da, pa-da-da
But I won't be the one who's gonna suffer
Oh no, I won't be the one who's gonna suffer
You are gonna be the one, a-you...

[terrysoldpennies]

The saying goes the camera never lies, but can distort the truth.

[oldcopper]

34 minutes ago, terrysoldpennies said:

The saying goes the camera never lies, but can distort the truth.

I think the truth has definitely changed with this one in the last 4 months.

[blakeyboy]

I had a studio gear dealer on the phone from Ontario yesterday, and he is sick to the back teeth of this - he refers to such stuff as 'gouging'

and it's becoming endemic in many fields of interest and commerce worldwide.

[Iannich48]

The blue toning looks just awful imo.

 

[copper123]

1 hour ago, Iannich48 said:

The blue toning looks just awful imo.

 

Americans like it - then again they used to like  putin , you remember george bush junior hugging him and going on about special relationship - bah - get a room!

Edited April 21, 2022 by copper123

[1949threepence]

A gross misrepresentation of the coin's true appearance. 

Has immediately made me very wary about buying anything from Atlas.    

[1949threepence]

4 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

I had a studio gear dealer on the phone from Ontario yesterday, and he is sick to the back teeth of this - he refers to such stuff as 'gouging'

and it's becoming endemic in many fields of interest and commerce worldwide.

Yes, indeed. Over here in the UK we perhaps tend to be a bit more honest. For example, KB Coins may be expensive, but having now bought several coins from Keith, I can't help noticing that every coin I've bought from him looks way better in hand than on his pics.  

[AtlasNumismatics]

This coin has been conserved to remove surface residue. The images are PCGS' images (unretouched).

[Michael-Roo]

Hang on a cotton-pickin'-minute....

In good faith I bought a coin I believed to be a proof, struck in silver, with an attractive blue toning. What's this brown jobby you've sent me?

Joking aside; I'm gobsmacked. You're absolutely right Mike.

[Peckris 2]

From the two stains (coincidentally botth adjacent to different I A ), it's obviously the same coin. What I don't understand is that there is flattening of the hair above the ear on the LCS picture, but the Atlas picture shows all hair strands - especially the 1st and 3rd below the ribbon - which don't look retouched.

[Michael-Roo]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

From the two stains (coincidentally botth adjacent to different I A ), it's obviously the same coin. What I don't understand is that there is flattening of the hair above the ear on the LCS picture, but the Atlas picture shows all hair strands - especially the 1st and 3rd below the ribbon - which don't look retouched.

Very interesting Chris. Is there even more 'enhancing'?

[Rob]

So, a few questions here.

Is it genuinely blue, implying it has been treated with whatever that solution is that leaves a blue residue?

Are the hair strands now in higher relief having been 'improved'? That guy in the states does a good repair job, so enhancing the hair would be a simple job for him.

Do PCGS routinely alter their images from the colours seen naturally in hand? Many images have this blue colour, implying consistency of manipulation, even if not giving an accurate representation. The US market apparently likes this colour scheme based on realised prices.

If the images are routinely doctored, then how do you differentiate between them and those that have been artificially coloured?

[Coinery]

Apparently you just ‘remove [the] surface residue’ and, hey presto, everything’s amazing!

Superb spot @oldcopper 

[AtlasNumismatics]

13 minutes ago, Coinery said:

Apparently you just ‘remove [the] surface residue’ and, hey presto, everything’s amazing!

Superb spot @oldcopper 

Some coins benefit from conservation, but many do not. Any difference in hair sharpness is due to photography. Removing PVC residue and organic matter with a solvent can change the color of a coin's surface. Questions about PCGS' photo procedures and post-processing should be directed to them.

[Bruce]

I noticed there will be another penny from LCA years ago to be auctioned in HA, with slab change from CGS to NGC.  I think price will go much higher as well, in view of usual high prices in US n Japan auction houses.

[Rob]

11 minutes ago, AtlasNumismatics said:

Some coins benefit from conservation, but many do not. Any difference in hair sharpness is due to photography. Removing PVC residue and organic matter with a solvent can change the color of a coin's surface. Questions about PCGS' photo procedures and post-processing should be directed to them.

I take your point about  PCGS' procedures, but it still doesn't address the question of how do I distinguish between those treated with solution (MS something?) and those that are 'PCGS or NGC blue'? Call me old fashioned, but I like to receive a coin that visually is at least a close fit to the colour and tone as listed at the time of purchase. If I was to purchase the coin in question and armed with the knowledge that it started out as a brown coin, would I receive a blue coin or a brown one?

It matters because I have bought a blue coin in the past that actually turned out to be blue in hand and I wasn't overly impressed. Assuming I am addressing Mr Rix, in 2008 I purchased a coin from yourself whilst still at NEN which was euphemistically slabbed NGC MS63BN. See below for a good approximation to the colour. It's so unnaturally coloured with an even blue sheen across the whole surface that nobody could reasonably defend it as un-tampered with. The slab even had a little blue sticker which matched the coin's colour to perfection - designer colours?

On a serious note, there is a genuine credibility issue here when the images don't reflect reality. 

 

[jelida]

If you want to remove pvc residue, as I do on occasion, why not just use acetone? Very effective, inexpensive, and doesn’t affect the coin in any way. And also doesn’t turn anything blue,  unless you breathe too much of the vapour to the exclusion of oxygen….oh, happy times…..😳 🥴☠️
 

Jerry

Edited April 22, 2022 by jelida
Big fingers

[1949threepence]

9 hours ago, AtlasNumismatics said:

Some coins benefit from conservation, but many do not. Any difference in hair sharpness is due to photography. Removing PVC residue and organic matter with a solvent can change the color of a coin's surface. Questions about PCGS' photo procedures and post-processing should be directed to them.

Yes, but you're now in possession of the coin ready for sale. So can you confirm that its current appearance to the naked eye is the same as the one shown in the thread starter first post above (ie: blue)?

Or not?

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by 1949threepence

[1949threepence]

Incidentally folks, I note that this coin originally went for £2,400 hammer at LCA in December 2021 - which would be £2,808 after buyer's premium - link

Atlas are asking $14,500, which at today's exchange rate of $1.29 to £1.00 is £11,240 - link

That's a 400.3% profit mark up - nice work. 

Emphasises the point I made the other day in relation to the 1797 gold penny mark up by Baldwin's over the DNW auction price, and that was only a modest 41% profit mark up. Buy at auction if you're at all interested.