Penny Acquisition of the week

[Peter]

8 hours ago, RLC35 said:

Thanks Dave. Those birthdays just keep coming...Ha,Ha! 

And many more Bob.

[azda]

One i picked up this week from NGC

[Peckris 2]

On 15 December 2018 at 11:19 PM, ozjohn said:

Great coin. Don't know how they survive with full mint lustre for so long. As an observation it appears the RM issues with ghosting are apparent with this coin.  I would be very happy to own this coin.

True ghosting is deeper than the lustre - you will still see it on quite worn George V pennies, where on that bun penny it won't survive the loss of lustre.

[ozjohn]

Scotch mist?  The impression of the obverse can be seen on the reverse. That's what they call ghosting IMO. The wear of the coin is irrelevant unless the image has been worn enough to hide the ghosting. In that case you wouldn't be able to detect ghosting as it would have worn away. Having said that I think we can agree it's a great coin and ghosting or not that' s how it left the mint  all that time ago.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

True ghosting is deeper than the lustre - you will still see it on quite worn George V pennies, where on that bun penny it won't survive the loss of lustre.

That's true. I've got a BU 1860 F13, and you can quite clearly see ghosting of the Queen's head on the reverse. But you never see a bun with any wear, which has the remotest sign of ghosting. Also, to be fair, you don't see it that often with UNC bun specimens.   

[Peckris 2]

1 hour ago, ozjohn said:

Scotch mist?  The impression of the obverse can be seen on the reverse. That's what they call ghosting IMO. The wear of the coin is irrelevant unless the image has been worn enough to hide the ghosting. In that case you wouldn't be able to detect ghosting as it would have worn away. Having said that I think we can agree it's a great coin and ghosting or not that' s how it left the mint  all that time ago.

No. not Scotch mist, but not true ghosting either. There are so many examples of BU coins where you can see a faint outline in the lustre but as Mike says, it doesn't survive once the coin wears. The Mint obviously didn't care about 'lustre ghosting' - it was only when it carried deeper into the metal that it was seen as a real problem.

[ozjohn]

Call it what you like it is still an impression of the obverse on the reverse in this case which IMO is ghosting,. however slight. In this case it is quite distinct and obvious as an impression of the Queen's head on the reverse of the coin. Certainly not as deep as the later examples from the early George V series. That's all I have to say about the matter.

[Coinery]

9 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

No. not Scotch mist, but not true ghosting either. There are so many examples of BU coins where you can see a faint outline in the lustre but as Mike says, it doesn't survive once the coin wears. The Mint obviously didn't care about 'lustre ghosting' - it was only when it carried deeper into the metal that it was seen as a real problem.

I’ve never heard of this phenomenon before, how does lustre ghosting come about? 

[1949threepence]

2 hours ago, Coinery said:

I’ve never heard of this phenomenon before, how does lustre ghosting come about? 

I assume it's exactly the same underlying principle as any other sort of ghosting, but more superficial in nature. Hence it is seen when the coin is lustred, but as soon as the lustre disappears, the ghosting becomes invisible, even under magnification. 

 

[terrysoldpennies]

1860 Gouby T missing colons .  my best find for a while

[secret santa]

Thanks Terry, I've added it to the rare penny site as example 15.

[1949threepence]

Neat capture, Terry.

[hazelman]

On 3/28/2018 at 5:34 PM, 1949threepence said:

Courtesy of Richard, an 1862 Freeman 39A, 8 over 6. Very pleased.

 

 

Its seems to me that though I have been collecting for what seems like forever and now I have what i would consider a decent coin collection I still struggle identifying the varieties. 

[secret santa]

1 hour ago, hazelman said:

Its seems to me that though I have been collecting for what seems like forever and now I have what i would consider a decent coin collection I still struggle identifying the varieties. 

This 8 over 6 variety is one of the harder ones to spot - there is only a little of the 6 visible usually. The wide 2 is also a clue as all the examples I've seen are from this die with the wide 2.

[hazelman]

4 minutes ago, secret santa said:

This 8 over 6 variety is one of the harder ones to spot - there is only a little of the 6 visible usually. The wide 2 is also a clue as all the examples I've seen are from this die with the wide 2.

Thanks for that - I can just about see the possibility of a 6 - my astigmatism doesnt help - just going through your varieties again as you posted. Such a useful resource - have you bound any hard copies yet?

 

[secret santa]

44 minutes ago, hazelman said:

have you bound any hard copies yet?

A website is such a great resource to work with; I can update it at will and make the simplest or most complex of changes without having to print out pages etc.

[hazelman]

1 minute ago, secret santa said:

A website is such a great resource to work with; I can update it at will and make the simplest or most complex of changes without having to print out pages etc.

So very true

 

[1949threepence]

3 hours ago, hazelman said:

Its seems to me that though I have been collecting for what seems like forever and now I have what i would consider a decent coin collection I still struggle identifying the varieties. 

In fairness, you do pretty much need a magnifying glass to see this one, as it's quite subtle. But if you then compare the 8 to a normal 8, you'll see the difference.  

Richard's specimen above is excellent. 

[1949threepence]

Managed to pick up a quite decent 1919H. Nice crisp strike to the reverse, with breast plate complete, and although not brilliant hair detail on the obverse, not absent either. Minor marking to the obverse devices at 2 o' clock and 8 o' clock, but that apart completely problem free. About GEF both sides. Still got that annoying problem with colour variation, although only slight this time. Reverse colour spot on. 

Left hand fingers not present, unfortunately.

  

Edited December 22, 2018 by 1949threepence

[secret santa]

Presumably you take the 2 photos within seconds of each other in similar conditions so the colour variation is puzzling.

[1949threepence]

1 minute ago, secret santa said:

Presumably you take the 2 photos within seconds of each other in similar conditions so the colour variation is puzzling.

Yes, absolutely. I noticed the variation immediately and took 4 more obverse photos, with exactly the same effect.  

[Peckris 2]

15 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes, absolutely. I noticed the variation immediately and took 4 more obverse photos, with exactly the same effect.  

It's the reverse picture that looks an unnatural colour so repeated pictures of the obverse probably wouldn't change anything.

That's good hair detail IMO - the reverse on mine is marginally better than yours, but there's NO hair detail!!

[1949threepence]

6 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

It's the reverse picture that looks an unnatural colour so repeated pictures of the obverse probably wouldn't change anything.

That's good hair detail IMO - the reverse on mine is marginally better than yours, but there's NO hair detail!!

I don't know what the issue is. I have noticed that when you tilt the camera, the shading changes. But on this occasion, I held it in the same position (or what I thought was the same position). Most peculiar.

The hair detail, along with a complete breastplate, is the clincher on the pre 1926 dates. If one is there, the other is often absent.  

[1949threepence]

Incidentally, of all the 4 1918 - 1919 , H's and KN's, it appears to me that the most difficult to get with any decent hair detail is the 1918H. 

I wonder if maybe the Heaton mint were handed worn out dies to fulfill their contract.   

[Peckris 2]

4 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

The hair detail, along with a complete breastplate, is the clincher on the pre 1926 dates. If one is there, the other is often absent.  

So true. A good obverse strike almost guarantees a weak reverse.

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Incidentally, of all the 4 1918 - 1919 , H's and KN's, it appears to me that the most difficult to get with any decent hair detail is the 1918H. 

I wonder if maybe the Heaton mint were handed worn out dies to fulfill their contract.   

I've often wondered that. Or a limited number of dies so they got overused.