Accumulator

What like Heritage pushing the prices still higher. Heritage doesn't push prices higher. Bidders push prices higher. Up to you to decide how high you want to go. Sorry, you should Quote slab buyers push prices Jaggy. Does'nt really help when Heritage start the ball Rolling at an ungoldy amount in the first place either I bid quite regularly at Heritage but I never overpay. If the bidding gets silly I pull out. Very few of the coins I am interested in are so rare that another example will not come up elsewhere sooner or later. Heritage are a business. They are there to get the best prices and, therefore, the best commissions for themselves. However, part of that business model is to provide an outstanding service, which they do. It is really up to us, the bidders, to determine what prices we are willing to pay. If some people are willing to pay silly prices that is their choice and their money. If Heritage sets a high initial price it is, no doubt, because they know that there are people that will pay it. I have to agree with you Jaggy. Heritage are really setting the standards for auction houses in the 21st century and, without realising it, a lot of collectors will benefit from the influx of interest (and, yes money) they are bringing to the hobby. As far as starting prices go, they can't really be wrong a just about every lot sells.

Very interesting, David. Does anyone have an example of a penny with a feint mintmark letter?

Well…. I went and looked at the pennies today. I need to be careful as this is a public forum. Just to give an idea, imagine quite nice bronze coins (not all of them are nice by any means) stored in pvc envelopes for a few decades in damp conditions and you'll get the idea. Lots of verd, carbon and staining. Only the best coins appear in the photos and this isn't made clear. The description 'mostly uncirculated' is simply not true. The 1864 is VF at best. Shame, really.

If you have any pennies, Paulus….

I think its fine for regular members to put up links to any coins for sale on eBay or elsewhere, Paulus. I've done the same in another thread.

If you do like George III copper and have the budget, then you might consider going for a proof coin rather than accepting a circulation strike, especially a worn example. Proofs of, say, 1806 pennies are fairly numerous and have a crispness in the detail you won't otherwise find, they also seem fairly unloved at the moment so prices are keen. Again, there are many second grade proofs around but after a while you'll recognise a good one when you see it.

I agree about the eye appeal, but I think you're very harsh with your grading. I think it's at LEAST VF. Perhaps GF is a tad harsh, it is early milled after all, but I really couldn't bring myself to give it more than nVF, it just has too much overall wear for me! But.. but.. there is very little on the reverse! Britannia's left t*t is the obvious wear, but look at the shield, olive branch, trident, and "SOHO" - hardly any wear at all. It's true, there are areas that are GVF, and areas that are barely better than F, I guess I am not comfortable with 'averaging' these out and tend to err on the low side! I would agree between GF and VF but, certainly for a VF grade, one would expect a more attractive coin. The fields look rather pitted, effectively lowering the relief of the design, and the overall colouring doesn't help. Definitely one to avoid as there are many more of these out there!

I thought you were a penny collector!!! Britannia is almost NEVER fully struck in that series, her face and chest suffering in particular, due to the sucking .... [pauses for audience laughter to die down] .... away of metal caused by the very deep cut obverse design. You would be very very lucky to find one that was NOT mushy. You've said it right there… "almost" means it's out there and waiting to be found! Even something like this regular 1918 is way better:

Is that why my bank manager only lends me his umbrella when it's not raining?

I paid about the same as CC's list example, which I've seen. RAS has one too, but for considerably more. Neither of these coins were quite what I was after so, knowing from the photos that I could get my money back, I took a punt on this being better. It has full lustre, with the minutest friction marks on the highest points (not really visible in hand), almost no bag marks, good clean edges and well struck lettering and date. The bust looks slightly better in hand, but there's no doubt that the chest and head areas of Britannia, in particular, are poorly struck. My head says UNC, because by definition that's what it is, but my heart will say AUNC and still be looking for a better one! Does such a beast exist though?

This is the 1918H which has arrived from Spink NY. It was relatively cheap, so I'm quite happy with the punt on a poor photo. The coin has 95% lustre and doesn't suffer from the really heavy ghosting on the reverse, however it's a typically poor strike with low definition and a mushy looking Britannia. I'm beginning to wonder if any better example's exist?

Not seen that. Very handy, though it could leave one tempted to make that extra bid you can't really afford!

If you don't mind suggestions, a few areas could possibly be tidied: "Lots of British coin related discussions" and "Enquiries about British coins" are much about the same thing, and "Ooo err, Hmmmm?" never really gets used. "Third party grading" and "Coin photography" might be useful forums to add in their own right. The "Free for all" is almost entirely about eBay, so perhaps this could be renamed "eBay" (droppping the 'laughs'). That's about it!

That doesn't surprise me, after talking to them!

I just won $8 on the Powerball so I am moving in the right direction "To sleep, perchance to dream" That's a staggering, but I'm sure quite accurate, figure Rob. If Heritage can shift $100 million coins in a single week then it's interesting to speculate that the market would probably be able to absorb the whole collection (had it not already been sold) at today's prices too.

I emailed 3 days ago asking for photos but haven't even had a reply, so I phoned and very much got the impression that viewing in person is the only option. I'd offer to look at the farthings for you, but my knowledge in that area is somewhat limited. If you want a photo of a particular coin I'll do my best with a camera when I'm there.

I've noticed that sale too but, as you say, terrible photos and many of the coins aren't even shown. The only answer for me is a trip down there at the weekend, as it's not too far. I agree though, they're looking for a sizeable cut from buyers, which I'll certainly factor in should I bid.

Thanks again guys. Actually I got something slightly wrong, Armin Brand is the brother of Virgil, not his son. Interesting background on their extensive collection (386,000 coins!) and its disposal here. Anyway, I've written to the ANS and their archivist has been very helpful. She has kindly offered to check their collection of Brand papers and ledgers (referenced above). There may be a small fee if the search is extensive, but I feel it's worth it. I'm beginning to get a glimpse of what Rob and others go through when trying to establish provenance!

Very hard to tell from the photos, Peckris, but the hair in particular almost looks like a rusty die? It could of course have been re-tooled to give the impression of a few more curls!

I've managed to talk to a gentleman who is numismatic advisor to the Eric P Newman Education Society and obtained some further interesting information. Also background which may help other purchasers of these coins. "mux" (as several have suggested) is indeed a cost code used by a St. Louis coin dealer Burdette G Johnson to represent his buy-in price of $1. Eric P Newman paid the stated $4 for the coin, from him. A large number of EPN's coins apparently came, via Mr Johnson, from the Estate of "Colonel" E H R Green. My coin is not one of these, but the story of these coins, and the records kept, make an interesting read: B G Johnson's Ledger "Colonel" E H R Green It is believed that my coin came from Armin Brand, son of a another noted collector Virgil Brand, but apparently they don't have absolute proof. Proof may lie in these papers held by the American Numismatic Society which are open to consultation. Maybe a task for another day!

Thanks guys! Over the next couple of weeks I'll have another 30 or so to list.

I've been having a sort out so am listing a few of my spare pennies over the next few weeks. I've put them on eBay here The first random selection includes a very nice 1895 2mm and a 1903 'open 3' amongst others.

I've received the following reply from an "International Cataloguer" at Heritage: The coins were actually stored in those envelopes for the better part of the last several decades. I do not know what MUX stands for. Eric used a variety of different codes for dealers or auction firms from which he purchased the coins, but not all of them are readily apparent nor did he provide us with a breakdown. $4.00 was indeed his original purchase price. I hadn't realised that what I thought of as an index card is in fact an envelope in which the coin was stored (it hasn't arrived here yet). So we know that "mux" probably represents the seller. I might ask on a US forum as there are bound to be other buyers there, some of whom may have looked into these 'codes'.

I'm using Safari and can't see where it shows the number of times a post has been 'liked'? As long as it's not Facebook-linked I'm happy. I don't feel the need to enter that particular world.