Accumulator

If Scotland were to become a member of the EU automatically then I'd agree with you. However, if Barosso is right and Scotland's accession were delayed by the average of around 8 years or so, or didn't manage to gain access for some reasons, then the border between Scotland and England would become a border between the EU and the rest of the world. That would surely bring all the controls associated with an international border i.e. border controls, customs etc. Maybe, but we'll all know where to go for our duty-free whisky! You'll need a Visa AC Visa cost: 6,000 McPooonds…. Or about 20p in English money.

If Scotland were to become a member of the EU automatically then I'd agree with you. However, if Barosso is right and Scotland's accession were delayed by the average of around 8 years or so, or didn't manage to gain access for some reasons, then the border between Scotland and England would become a border between the EU and the rest of the world. That would surely bring all the controls associated with an international border i.e. border controls, customs etc. Maybe, but we'll all know where to go for our duty-free whisky!

That reminds me of a brief time back in the 80's I spent in Texas. The guy I was working with took me for a drive through a predominantly Mexican area. Row upon row of poor, run down housing stock but with latest Cadillac or Buick parked proudly outside! I guess we all choose our priorities. Some might spend more on coins than their house!

I know Elmbridge and the surrounding areas of Surrey well, having been born bought up there. In my youth there were some very wealthy pockets (St George's Hill, comes to mind) but nothing like the concentration of money that's there now. I often return to visit family and it's not just the huge houses with swimming pools in gated estates, but the cars and the private schools and the high end shops and expensive eateries…. and the list goes on. These generally aren't people struggling with unmanageable mortgages or high LTV ratios. It seems they're paying their fair share of tax too, which of course is only right.

I'm with you there Dave, but for me it's the Tory b******s in the Home Counties who should declare independence and leave the rest of the UK to everyone else including the Scots. Your part of the UK would be a bit short of income if they did. Elmbridge in Surrey (£1.18bn) alone pays more income tax than Glasgow (£898m), Sheffield (£812m), Aberdeen (£728m), Cardiff (£589m) and Newcastle (£443m). Elmbridge in Surrey may have more population, Scotland has a mere 5 million population. The same said elmbridge may have many rich residents compared to the millionaires that reside in Scotland. Bear in mind how much Scotland pays in oil tax. If this was taken into account and it did'nt head into the Westminster coffers then we'd probably be paying more than the UK put together.AC, i mean we as i'm Scottish, whether i can or cannot vote. Being able to vote or not does not determine who i am. oOh and if we combined Aberdeen and Glasgow the combined tax would be more than Elmbridge. 1.6 Billion or so. Wonder how mamy people live in Elmbridge Surrey who work as Stockbrokers or Play Professional Football or who own 1 million pound plus houses. Lets keep it into perspective I thought all the Scottish millionaires live in Germany these days, Dave?

Jokes aside, I have to say there's some breathtaking opinions being expressed here against those, who purely by dint of geography and birth, happen to be from the south-east of this country.

'We'? Surely you don't get a vote Dave?

I completely agree. Was being slightly tongue in cheek.

Yes, I do like it! It just took a while for the penny to drop, and for me to calculate that one hammered Spink ref can cover 50+ varieties of one coin and numerous mint marks, common and rare alike!Rare mint mark of same S number sells £500 Common mint mark of same S number sells £140 Ref guide so far = £320 Simples! Edit: moral of the story is don't expect to get £320 for your common mint mark, just because the Spink's guide values it 'group' as such! That doesn't sound right, Stuart. Surely a rarity weighting needs to be included in the algorithm? Here's a puzzle for the weekend: If there are two varieties of a coin and the rarer, worth £100, appears 1/10 of the time, while the more common, worth £10, appears 9/10 of the time, show that the weighted average value is £19. :-) Shouldn't this be the Spink value?

I'm neutral and really don't mind, but as I read it, Salmon now finds himself between an irresistible force and an immovable object. The outcome of which cannot be in his favour.

Now that is a truly beautiful example!

That really would be just about impossible for any of us!

It seems clear to me that the coin on the right is the sharper, better strike. The one on the left has lovelier tone certainly, but less detail. Thank you Peckris. Then you'll be surprised to know that the coin on the left is graded CGS 82 and estimated at £400-600. The one on the right is graded CGS 78 and estimated at £200-250 Edit: (and Paulus)

Has anyone studied the coins carefully? Here are the two reverses… Check the chest area of St. George around the strap, his thigh muscles, the chest muscles of the horse, the rim etc. and tell me which is the better graded coin?

Does anyone know why Noble haven't updated their website since the November 2013 auction? I was quite pleased with my purchases and looking forward to future sales, but the homepage still previews an auction which finished nearly 3 months ago!

Hmmmm… well I was about to answer that there's quite a difference between a 78 and an 82 grade (and so there should be), then I took a look at the coins in question. Is it my imagination, or is there slightly more wear to the better graded coin? Check the strap running across St. George's chest. there's little doubt that the 78 Crown exhibits less wear here. There are other examples too. Oh dear!

I feel sure that many internet bidders, used to the conservative grading of the specialist auction houses, accepted the 'mostly uncirculated' description of the copper & bronze. Yes, there were a couple of 'tasty' pennies in there, but also a lot of coins well beyond saving due to the verd. The most interesting pennies for me were an F1 and an F14 in GEF, both in lot 893. I bid but dropped out before it hit the eventual £3k + commission etc. (I.e £4k) The only other penny of interest was an 'unlisted' 1875H 8+H die combination. I couldn't find any reference to the existence of such a coin at auction or in any reference book, so viewed it very suspiciously. Whilst it was undoubtedly 8 + H (narrow date), there was a good deal of corrosion around the site of the 'H', which appeared to have been scratched clean. I have to say, I was just not convinced enough to bid (the other coins in the lot were in pretty awful condition). If anyone here bought it, I'd be extremely interested to know the outcome of a more comprehensive check?

I agree. The Labour Government may have 'caused' the deficit by spending billions to bail out the banks, but the alternative would have been total economic collapse, worse even than Greece. Unfortunately I've read that the banks are back to some of their worst excesses, and haven't learned a thing it seems except how to make irresponsible profits. I've run my own businesses all my working life and never received a penny from government when times are hard, nor have I ever expected it. In years gone by I've had to raid my personal savings to pay staff (I never let them know) and juggle things so as never to let a single supplier down. Whilst understanding the necessity of saving the banks and preventing financial melt-down, what sticks in my craw is the sense of entitlement that bankers still seem to have, despite our saving their collective arses. I have first hand experience of an RBS director, from the days of failure, still living the high life when, in any other business situation, he'd be struggling to explain to potential employers why he deserves a job counting paperclips.

Same with the pennies, which I travelled down to view on Saturday. Only one lot interested me, and I just saw it go for 3 x estimate. With a few exceptions, they really weren't in the best condition having suffered from a significant attack of verdigris.

1862 is another year with often excellent strikes, as is your Peckris. Not a detail missing from that coin.

I still think we English should hold a referendum to decide whether we want Scotland to be a member of our Kingdom. If the answer's No, we'll give them a month's notice to quit.

But as nice as it is, it still falls a little bit short of say my 1867 bronzed and 1879 bronze proofs. Both are ex-Nicholson http://www.colincooke.com/coinpages/nicholson_part5.html for comparison. An 1868 (ex Bamford), for comparison (sorry if you've seen it before):

A lovely example Rob!

Welcome! I started in the days before decimalisation, collecting coins from change. I still have many of those coins and have been fortunate to add to them over the years. I've always been drawn to pennies, in particular, so have focussed my collection on the copper and bronze series from 1797 to 1970. I'm unashamedly a date run collector, keen to obtain an example of every known type of penny, including proofs and patterns… an impossible task of course! The link below will give you an idea of where I am with the collection.

All 1863 coins were from dies 6 + G. Freeman lists a bronzed proof with rarity R18 and I note that a few have been sold over the years. Interestingly Baldwins sold a beautiful 'proof like' example, which they didn't actually claim to be a proof, so maybe another specimen? 1863 is one of the more common years so UNC examples with virtually full lustre rarely fetch more than £200-250 (Spink has £375). Not everyone would accept the lack of lustre on your example, though many would for such a fine strike. Personally I'd say £150-200 for your coin, unless it shows a proof-like quality (mirrored surface) to the fields that isn't evident in the photos in which case substantially more.