More Pennies

[VickySilver]

It is from the die [skip] rotating about an axial radius and can affect other areas depending on the axis.

[blakeyboy]

If the die iswhole, and held in a collar, there can only be one axis of rotation, the centre.

All details will be affected, and all doubling will show the direction of die rotation to the same extent.

This is not what is happening to this 1967 date. The doubling of the 6 is on the die!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Bee]

QEII Lighthouses

David, in "The Identification of British 20th Century Bronze Coin Varieties" 

1967 Penny

Mentions page 117 2. "that on a small percentage of specimens, the lighthouse is thicker, particularly at the top"

& 1965 Penny

Mentions page 116 "4. There are reports of the lighthouse having nearly a square upper section"

I've looked but, I don't think book contains an illustration of the lighthouse types (I have said to David if he is ever able to issue a updated version I'll be as close to the front as I can get, in the long queue to buy a copy)

I wondered if I've found an example from 1967. The "Normal" type is on the right and possibly the left hand example is the thicker type (not sure if its a "square" at the top)

Look forward to your thoughts

Best Regards

 

[Peckris 2]

I don't think that's a variety. If you look at the bottom image, everything - the lighthouse, the rocks, the hand and fingers - is narrower implying die wear on the upper example.

One thing I've never noticed about that design though, is that there appears to be an extra finger below the hand, on the edge of the shield!

[jelida]

29 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

I don't think that's a variety. If you look at the bottom image, everything - the lighthouse, the rocks, the hand and fingers - is narrower implying die wear on the upper example.

One thing I've never noticed about that design though, is that there appears to be an extra finger below the hand, on the edge of the shield!

I agree, it’s either die wear or very possibly the power of the strike, a reduced impact affecting the metal flow into the recesses of the die. Other detail such as the rocks and the lines on Britannia’s shield also seems reduced.

I really don’t know who’s given her the finger though.

Jerry

[The Bee]

Many thanks for the feedback, Does anyone have a genuine 1967 "thicker lighthouse" or nearly "square upper section" or is it just die wear ?

Best Regards

 

[The Bee]

1860 N over N

Hi, I've had a look at Richard's site and at London Coins website. All images for 1860 N over N's have a die flaw from tip of the wreath to the rim. However I can't see any die flaw on my example. The A over A looks the same as other photos. My first assumption is that this is an early example. before the die flaw on the A over A obverse developed. It seems to be unusual, so my second assumption is that the die flaw could have developed quite quickly.

Any thoughts ?

 

 

[Citizen H]

4 more invaders found whilst sorting things out.....

Anything of interest .......worth keeping ?

 

[Peckris 2]

Unfortunately, no. Nothing of interest there. 

[PWA 1967]

Dont know if this is any interest to anyone. Although i have posted in pennies, it also covers other bronze.

These were amendments freeman made after his first bronze book, showing some that he had estimated to be less rare than he originally thought or at the time of print didnt know existed, such as the 1860 Halfpenny mule, 1870 Dot penny etc.

[PWA 1967]

[secret santa]

Where does this come from, Pete ?

[PWA 1967]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Where does this come from, Pete ?

It was inside a copy of the 1970 First edition i bought a few months ago and hadnt seen one before.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

7 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

It was inside a copy of the 1970 First edition i bought a few months ago and hadnt seen one before.

These, if I am correct, are you amongst the updates included in the second (1986) edition. 

 

[Martinminerva]

19 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

These, if I am correct, are you amongst the updates included in the second (1986) edition.

Not quite all, though... Eg. the mule 1860 halfpenny listed above as 260A does not appear in the 1986 or subsequent editions, instead there the one given 260A is the missing knot 1*+A, but non-mule, and 260B its proof. Wonder why he never mentioned again such a mule piece? I believe a few are now known?

Edited December 12, 2025 by Martinminerva
Tweak.

[PWA 1967]

Some were although some not and the two page ammendment sheet put inside the 1970 book at a later date.

The 1909 F169 is another and says should be R15 although was in the later books as R9.

Nothing amazing and was just posted for anyone who may be interested.

[PWA 1967]

14 minutes ago, Martinminerva said:

Not quite all, though... Eg. the mule 1860 halfpenny listed above as 260A does not appear in the 1986 or subsequent editions, instead there the one given 260A is the missing knot 1*+A, but non-mule, and 260B its proof. Wonder why he never mentioned again such a mule piece? I believe a few are now known?

I didnt know there was now a few of the mule and thought there was only the one, sold by Hiram Brown. I would buy one today for much more than it sold for at Noonans and will have to start looking now 👍

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

11 minutes ago, Martinminerva said:

Not quite all, though... Eg. the mule 1860 halfpenny listed above as 260A does not appear in the 1986 or subsequent editions, instead there the one given 260A is the missing knot 1*+A, but non-mule, and 260B its proof. Wonder why he never mentioned again such a mule piece? I believe a few are now known?

It was the basis of the updates, subject to his future decisions.

He later removed the milled penny (that I recently sold) from the catalog after receiving an assessment from the Royal Mint that it was a post mint alteration.

Just as his 1970 edition was an extension of his several updated versions of his penny studies expanded to include half pennies, farthings,  patterns, trials, etc.

There are ALWAYS corrections,  updates, modifications, etc to a work of this magnitude. 

There have been many new discoveries to add to Peck, Braman, Freeman, etc. No guide/catalog is a final authority, it merely contains information known at the time.

They grow, mature, learn, make adjustments and corrections, expand as a living being.

[secret santa]

Regarding pennies, an addition not incorporated into the 1985 edition:

Page 31, number 80A (1875 8+H with H below date) - can we assume that this coin does not exist ?

I have never seen it referenced anywhere, including Gouby.

[Martinminerva]

40 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Regarding pennies, an addition not incorporated into the 1985 edition:

Page 31, number 80A (1875 8+H with H below date) - can we assume that this coin does not exist ?

I have never seen it referenced anywhere, including Gouby.

I see London Coins sold this piece below a decade or so ago, concluding it was a doctored piece (is it???) with the H presumably added post-mint. Maybe this is the one Freeman saw and then had second thoughts?  Did any forum member buy it, perhaps? Seemed a fair price for such a curio!

 

[alfnail]

11 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

Did any forum member buy it, perhaps? Seemed a fair price for such a curio!

I agreed Martin, and here it is.

Digital microscope (x140) picture of 'H' to follow.

Any views please, I've struggled to classify it as a fake myself......but then what do I know about metallurgy!?  

[alfnail]

[secret santa]

Really interesting - I've added it to my rare penny site with a question mark.

Edited December 13, 2025 by secret santa
punctuation

[Citizen H]

Arrrrggghhhhh! more strays showing up. ( Albeit Half Penny's)😧

ah, So ......of any interest? worth keeping?? 

 

 

[PWA 1967]

No sorry but they are just scrap.

The best thing to do with any Bronze coins post 1901 is to buy the David Groom book " British 20th Century Bronze Coin Varieties ".

Its only about £10-£15 posted on Amazon and will help you get familiar with any varieties for Bronze Pennies, Halfpennies and Farthings.

There is a seperate one for silver coins also, should you be interested in those.