Artificial Re-toning

[DaveG38]

No, I'm not raising the thorny old issue of rainbow toning and all that goes with it. I am interested in views on how best to artificially re-tone dipped silver coinage. I have got one or two nice GVF - EF George II shillings, which have been dipped at sometime in their lives and are now very clean and lifeless. I've had them for some years now but they show little signs of naturally re-toning and so I'm wondering if there is any simple way to re-tone them.

In some ways I'm slightly surprised that they don't re-tone fairly quickly anyway. Right next to them, I have a small silver photo frame, which I clean with silver polish every now and then. This frame darkens quite quickly, certainly within a couple of years to a nice dark tone, yet the coins stay stubbornly bright. Any ideas, why this doesn't happen to the coins?

As a chemist by education, I'm aware that the toning on silver is fundamentally Silver Sulphide, so that should mean that exposing the coins to Hydrogen Sulphide gas should accelerate the process, but again in my experience this doesn't seem to do the trick as it should. There are other means of trying to get a reaction from sulpher on the surface, such as simply soaking the coin in water to which flowers of sulphur have been added - only a tiny amount of sulphur dissolves, but it should be enough to give a slow surface reaction on the silver. Again, no joy. So, its contentious I know, but is there an acceptable way to do this?

Edited June 20, 2014 by DaveG38

[Rob]

I think it depends on how well the dipping solution has been washed off and also how well it was dipped. Over-dipped coins stay a lifeless colour, slightly dipped and they tone with a bit of colour in 5 or 6 years.

[Peckris]

When you say "right next to them", do you mean that literally? The photo frame is stored along with the coins? If 'yes', then I'm as much in the dark as you are, but if you mean 'next to the cabinet / trays / albums (or wherever the coins are)' then the answer would be - atmospheric conditions, from which coins, properly stored, are comparatively free.

[Benny who]

I think as Rob has said,it all depends if the dip or what ever was used has been removed,as this can cause a barrier.I would leave in acetone for a while also to get rid of anything else,as if you do try to tone it and a figure print is there,the coin will be worse than ever.

Retoning naturally will always be better.A lot off over dipped coins will look like dishwater (grey and lifeless),and coins that has been speeded up with the toning process seem the have a halo around the devices(an almost opposite to what it should look like if it have been left to tone naturally.

Smashed up matches in a air tight box with a little liquid.and left warm room.

Really hard boiled eggs warm smashed up left in a plastic box with the coin.

These sort of treatments can be seen for what they are if done wrong ie the egg can create an almost bubble like pattern from the steam

Personally I think that once a coin has been dipped(and not to harshly treated),a warm window and time would be the best bet,at least you can observe the results over time.possibly add a little water from time to time to card the coin is held in,to try to give a periphery.

The worst I have ever seen was an absolute Gem Unc Crown really early strike,would have paid three times the value just to own it,however it had been done so the devices and fields were all the same colour,had saw the previous picture although a little dark frosted cameo with mirrored fields,gutted.

This is really only my opinion,so I don't want you grabbing your shiny coins and choking the chicken for an egg!!

[Coinery]

I have tried it all, boiled egg yolks, bleach, liver sulphate, and have had some brilliant results. However, I've had many more rubbish results, without changing any of the obvious variables, so lord knows what's going on there?

The very best I've had was from a natural re-tone, achieved when living in our caravan by the sea! I could turn a coin very nearly black, just by leaving it on a high shelf. Strangely, though, as you point out, some coins just wouldn't budge, and some would tone quite nicely, but the tone would smudge off with a thumb, whilst others would be a permanent and good quality tone. Equally, some would tone black, and others a brownish colour, almost like copper???

Not helpful, unfortunately, but, whatever you try, make sure the coin is decontaminated with acetone first, then the surfaces have a chance of toning evenly.

Ps I did buy some silver ageing 'juice' used by creative jewellers to make antique-effect jewellery...I wouldn't advise it, it was very unpredictable in its action and outcomes, mostly leaving a brown/grey surface that, more often than not, would wash off!

Good luck with it all! Something I haven't yet tried is burial in a plant pot, with various mediums and moisture contents...I reckon a formula could be found there?

[Sword]

When I first started coin collecting, I brought a crown described by W&W as "1902, about UNC" at what I thought was a good price. When I got more experience later on, I realised that it is (or was) actually a matt proof that has been cleaned (and not just be dipping either). I have left it on the window sill (loosely covered by the lid of a coin capsule and on the top of a piece of dark cloth) for a few years now in an attempt to retone it. It is developing an OK grey tone but I will have to wait until my retirement before it is toned all over.

[DaveG38]

When you say "right next to them", do you mean that literally? The photo frame is stored along with the coins? If 'yes', then I'm as much in the dark as you are, but if you mean 'next to the cabinet / trays / albums (or wherever the coins are)' then the answer would be - atmospheric conditions, from which coins, properly stored, are comparatively free.

No, I guess not right next to each other, but only a yard or so apart and the coins are in an album. Would that make that much difference? After all, the atmosphere and its impurities in which they both live is much the same.

[VickySilver]

There have been other threads 'cross the pond - Taco Bell Restaurant napkins that have a bit of sulfur in them have been used to great effect...

[Peter]

There have been other threads 'cross the pond - Taco Bell Restaurant napkins that have a bit of sulfur in them have been used to great effect...

Taco bell was one fast food we avoided when touring the West coast.

More recently I was working at Lakenheath (US base)...Tacobell next door....avoided over an 18 month period.

Popeyes chicken was a different matter.

Plus I did get a few T bone steaks for buttons out of the supermarket on site...pretend US accent and pay in $

[VickySilver]

Ah, just so much healthy food!

I do remember getting tacos at Taco Bell when they first opened in the late '60s for 19 cents.

[Peckris]

When you say "right next to them", do you mean that literally? The photo frame is stored along with the coins? If 'yes', then I'm as much in the dark as you are, but if you mean 'next to the cabinet / trays / albums (or wherever the coins are)' then the answer would be - atmospheric conditions, from which coins, properly stored, are comparatively free.

No, I guess not right next to each other, but only a yard or so apart and the coins are in an album. Would that make that much difference? After all, the atmosphere and its impurities in which they both live is much the same.

If the coins are in flips, in the album, then they're protected to a great extent from the atmospheric conditions which the frame is exposed to.

[TomGoodheart]

Not sure about Taco Bell napkins, but Manilla envelopes used to be mentioned as being effective.

Trouble is, as Stuart says (and of course, he's to the only one to have 'experimented') the results can rarely be guaranteed. This makes the slow approach probably a bit safer, though not as satisfactory as darkening a coin within minutes. But there's still a risk that you'll end up with something that you like less than the original.

Or, and I presume this may be due to how or what was used to 'brighten' a coin previously, there do seem to be some that just stay bright.

If someone could create a product that gave controllable, consistent results, I suspect they would make a lot of money!

[ozjohn]

The opposite end of the scale to my I've Cleaned It. One way I have found is to breath on a coin like you are cleaning glasses and leaving in a protected place open to the air. Repeat as many times necessary but it's a slow process. The coin illustrated took a year to retone. I have to say it wasn't dipped by me but it was very bright when I obtained it.

[Peter]

Ozjohn

That is nice.The reverse is very nice.

[Peckris]

The opposite end of the scale to my I've Cleaned It. One way I have found is to breath on a coin like you are cleaning glasses and leaving in a protected place open to the air. Repeat as many times necessary but it's a slow process. The coin illustrated took a year to retone. I have to say it wasn't dipped by me but it was very bright when I obtained it.

It's a mistake to think that 'brightness' is necessarily a sign of cleaning. Polishing would cause it, but looks very unnatural, while dipping actually reduces brightness (increases LIGHTNESS, i.e. colour, but reduces lustre). A coin that has retained its BU condition might indeed look 'bright' and there are many 19th Century silver coins that have a mirror finish, almost prooflike.

[sound]

The opposite end of the scale to my I've Cleaned It. One way I have found is to breath on a coin like you are cleaning glasses and leaving in a protected place open to the air. Repeat as many times necessary but it's a slow process. The coin illustrated took a year to retone. I have to say it wasn't dipped by me but it was very bright when I obtained it.

It's a mistake to think that 'brightness' is necessarily a sign of cleaning. Polishing would cause it, but looks very unnatural, while dipping actually reduces brightness (increases LIGHTNESS, i.e. colour, but reduces lustre). A coin that has retained its BU condition might indeed look 'bright' and there are many 19th Century silver coins that have a mirror finish, almost prooflike.

Peck,

I have just used John's method of cleaning using Bicarbonate & Foil on some old low grade silver. Compared to dipping in a Goddard's it seems by far superior for the reasons you have stated.

My general feeling is that cleaning should be avoided at all costs. However their will always be that one coin that almost begs to be cleaned.

John,

The retone looks really good. Just one year?

Mark

[ozjohn]

Mark,

The coin is in an old 17th C oak flight of draws maybe something in the oak wood helps.

John