Spink Stops Coin Dealing......

[Colin88]

..to focus on auctions....this is in the ATG...

Spink have decided to give up their retail operation in order to focus on private treaty sales.

"We are not going to stock an inventory of low value coins but we'll continue to have great coins on offer in the show room for private treaty" a spokesman said. "Spink will continue to be a buyer of top quality rare and important coins"

Meanwhile they have hired Bonham's specialist Eduaord Wyngaard to help develop the coin auction business and have taken on three numismatic experts ...all in Hong Kong to boost their coin and banknote business in the region.

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Low value coins...pah ! we blow our noses in their direction..Mr Wyngaaard was reported as saying..allegedley ..

So all you horrible little collectors who dont have tens of thousands to spend in a Coutts account can F off..particularly if you are UK based...and there's nothing at all wrong with our online auction site so you can stop all that complaining immediately....a spokesman said.

[NRP]

Yes it's been coming for a while and mainly for the reasons mentioned on the other thread Spink 2014

[TomGoodheart]

Shame. I did like getting the Circular. And those little red boxes they sent coins in. But that was some time ago now ...

Though it still seems odd to me that they are giving up when Stanley Gibbons is buying coin dealerships.

[Peckris]

I was on their 'Concierge' email list. I've asked to be removed from the list, as they don't seem to be 'interested in coins anymore'.

[Peter]

Spink publications....Hmmm.

The end of an era.

Quite frankly it wouldn't be too difficult to update Spinks annual catalogue for the better.

It would be nice to have Hammered,Milled&Decimal catalogue's (Chris already has the Decimal edition wrapped up))

[Paulus]

Spink publications....Hmmm.

The end of an era.

Quite frankly it wouldn't be too difficult to update Spinks annual catalogue for the better.

It would be nice to have Hammered,Milled&Decimal catalogue's (Chris already has the Decimal edition wrapped up))

I would like to see a split between gold, silver and copper/bronze too (not sure where tin et al would sit!)

[mhcoins]

hi

This is my first post

Although as others have previously stated its been on the cards for sometime, i still find this news shocking!

In the past year or so i have found dealing with Spink a lot more friendly and welcoming.

[Paulus]

Welcome mh, where are you based and what is/are your focus area(s)?

[mhcoins]

Hi, based next to chancery lane tube station. Mainly deal in English Hammered and Early Milled Coinage

[Paulus]

Hi, based next to chancery lane tube station. Mainly deal in English Hammered and Early Milled Coinage

Ah yes, I have your website bookmarked! Nice rare 1658 Dutch crown!

Edited November 27, 2013 by Paulus

[TomGoodheart]

hi

This is my first post

Although as others have previously stated its been on the cards for sometime, i still find this news shocking!

In the past year or so i have found dealing with Spink a lot more friendly and welcoming.

Hi and welcome! Alan, is it? I have your site bookmarked too!

Edited November 27, 2013 by TomGoodheart

[Coinery]

I think collectors AND dealers have a vested interest in price guides remaining vague! A case in point would be say the hammered coinage! It wouldn't be too hard for a price guide like Spink's to add footnotes to each number. Example: the 6th issue sixpence of E1 covers 18 years and 10 mintmarks and, as we have recently seen, a 1599, AND other dates/mintmarks beside, can fetch some silly money compared to their kin classified within the same Spink number!

If a numerical grade was possible (which it isn't IMHO) and a catalogue was in existence that said S2578 F65 VF240 with footnote 1599 Anchor X multiples thereof, etc. etc., where would the experience and knowledge of those who have discovered this information through many hours and great endeavour, stand?

How could say someone like me progress through a particular series and discover the rarities and hard dates, and still manage to acquire them through wit and knowledge (when fortune favours), if joe down the road can tell me the rarity of any given date for the Elizabeth series, and put pressure on the market for them?

It must be the same for every specialist interest anywhere! If you remove the incentive to become expert in a field, by replacing them with a finite catalogue, with it would go the opportunity to afford that which interests the expert and true collector in the first place.

Edit: just read your posts mhcoins...welcome aboard!

Edited November 27, 2013 by Coinery

[NRP]

Hi, based next to chancery lane tube station. Mainly deal in English Hammered and Early Milled Coinage

Alan I hope you are feeling better ;-)

[Rob]

I don't think this is going to work to their advantage long term. High end material is booming in all collecting fields, including coins. What happens when the music stops and all the city bonuses dry up. Or when you can get a decent reasonably risk free return on cash deposits following a long overdue return to normal interest rates. Your bottom fishers will still go around hoovering up the 4p scrap copper discs for 3p, whilst the middle market will probably trade up slightly because they are typically only spending a few thousand at the most. This is by far the largest group, which most people on this forum would consider themselves part of, but Spink aren't interested in these people.

The stark truth is that there are very few coins worthy of sale by private treaty at any given point in time, so their client base by design will contract to a very limited number of wealthy individuals. It's a pity really because past collectors and their families tended to migrate to Spink as a disposal outlet meaning you could put out feelers for specifics and quickly find out when something came along that matched your needs. Presumably books are going to go the same way. Bet they don't dispose of their library though.

[VickySilver]

Rob, very well put. Interesting that you stated what I feel: Spink has left us "middle dwellers" for dead. That has in turn possibly to some degree opened a niche for those such as yourself or Neil, etc. hopefully.

[Peckris]

I don't think this is going to work to their advantage long term. High end material is booming in all collecting fields, including coins. What happens when the music stops and all the city bonuses dry up. Or when you can get a decent reasonably risk free return on cash deposits following a long overdue return to normal interest rates. Your bottom fishers will still go around hoovering up the 4p scrap copper discs for 3p, whilst the middle market will probably trade up slightly because they are typically only spending a few thousand at the most. This is by far the largest group, which most people on this forum would consider themselves part of, but Spink aren't interested in these people.

The stark truth is that there are very few coins worthy of sale by private treaty at any given point in time, so their client base by design will contract to a very limited number of wealthy individuals. It's a pity really because past collectors and their families tended to migrate to Spink as a disposal outlet meaning you could put out feelers for specifics and quickly find out when something came along that matched your needs. Presumably books are going to go the same way. Bet they don't dispose of their library though.

PER COIN????

[Rob]

I don't think this is going to work to their advantage long term. High end material is booming in all collecting fields, including coins. What happens when the music stops and all the city bonuses dry up. Or when you can get a decent reasonably risk free return on cash deposits following a long overdue return to normal interest rates. Your bottom fishers will still go around hoovering up the 4p scrap copper discs for 3p, whilst the middle market will probably trade up slightly because they are typically only spending a few thousand at the most. This is by far the largest group, which most people on this forum would consider themselves part of, but Spink aren't interested in these people.

The stark truth is that there are very few coins worthy of sale by private treaty at any given point in time, so their client base by design will contract to a very limited number of wealthy individuals. It's a pity really because past collectors and their families tended to migrate to Spink as a disposal outlet meaning you could put out feelers for specifics and quickly find out when something came along that matched your needs. Presumably books are going to go the same way. Bet they don't dispose of their library though.

PER COIN????

No, as a general limit. Five or six years ago there seemed to be a psychological limit of about £3K where a lot of bids on individual coins topped out. It was the limit where someone who normally spent say £1K on a coin, found a particularly desirable example and went for it. This has increased to around the £5K all in level in the past two years and broadly represents the upper limit of most middle ground purchases for individual pieces. Of course they spend less than this on many items, but in general, an occasional spend of up to a few K on either a single lot or multiple cheaper ones is something that many middle ground collectors are happy to contemplate. These people are typically reasonably well off, retired and in need of something to fill their day. They are the sensible ones who will take an interest in the hobby. At greater risk is the retiree who has a pot of money and goes to places like the LMO. They spend the same amount and get little or nothing for it.

[numismatist]

I must say, I have been dealing with Spink's since the late 1960's and they were always

as good as you get and I used to visit them twice a week and there was no one to beat them.

Their web site and search facility was second to none with quality high definition photos that

you could blow up to dinner plate size. Their downfall has been dramatic and they are now

well amongst the worst there is. Their website and service is lousy, emails are ignored and

even when pressed to answer their advice is not to be trusted. I had a Unique Mule recently

and I sent them superb photos and asked if it could go into one of their Hong Kong or similar

auctions, it took about 8 weeks to get them to say it had NO value at all . I also sent details to

Baldwins with good clear photos of a few other Coins asking if they would be suitable for a

Hongkong sale, they replied ( but ignored that Coin ) saying a few may have some value but

you must bring them ALL in. I got the feeling I would be offered a few pounds for the lot. So

I put a photo of that Mule on Ebay and guess what a Russian Dealer offered £3.5K and sent

a bank transfer the next day, and another Baldwins ignored completely , I was offered £6K for !

It makes me wonder what the game !!! was. Neither would say they were worth even a penny !

No accusations but some may think it was all a set up for a £10K fraud !! or maybe just complete

negligence. I will never deal with either the them again. Very sad after well over 40 years and

very many happy dealings with both of them.

[RLC35]

I must say, I have been dealing with Spink's since the late 1960's and they were always

as good as you get and I used to visit them twice a week and there was no one to beat them.

Their web site and search facility was second to none with quality high definition photos that

you could blow up to dinner plate size. Their downfall has been dramatic and they are now

well amongst the worst there is. Their website and service is lousy, emails are ignored and

even when pressed to answer their advice is not to be trusted. I had a Unique Mule recently

and I sent them superb photos and asked if it could go into one of their Hong Kong or similar

auctions, it took about 8 weeks to get them to say it had NO value at all . I also sent details to

Baldwins with good clear photos of a few other Coins asking if they would be suitable for a

Hongkong sale, they replied ( but ignored that Coin ) saying a few may have some value but

you must bring them ALL in. I got the feeling I would be offered a few pounds for the lot. So

I put a photo of that Mule on Ebay and guess what a Russian Dealer offered £3.5K and sent

a bank transfer the next day, and another Baldwins ignored completely , I was offered £6K for !

It makes me wonder what the game !!! was. Neither would say they were worth even a penny !

No accusations but some may think it was all a set up for a £10K fraud !! or maybe just complete

negligence. I will never deal with either the them again. Very sad after well over 40 years and

very many happy dealings with both of them.

I've never dealt with Spink, but I have Baldwins. They are fine to buy from, but to sell, or auction is another matter. I offered them a whole box (about 85 coins) for auction (one of the coins in the $15,000 range, and excessivly rare), and they showed little interest. They said they deal in only the rarer, high value coins! Business must be good! LOL!

[Rob]

many happy dealings with both of them.

I've never dealt with Spink, but I have Baldwins. They are fine to buy from, but to sell, or auction is another matter. I offered them a whole box (about 85 coins) for auction (one of the coins in the $15,000 range, and excessivly rare), and they showed little interest. They said they deal in only the rarer, high value coins! Business must be good! LOL!

It is. On their last FPL they had sold about 90% within a month or so. That was with a list total of over £1m. Nice if you can get it.

[coin watch]

This all sounds very sad for the everyday collector, but then I think this could be all the more sad for these mentioned well established companies. To focus on the top end only is all well and good in the short term but as Rob previously said it only takes a downturn to start to occur in that field for it to all come tumbling down very quickly, and with some fingers getting burnt in the process for both buyers and these 'top knob' companies! By that time the collector will have turned away and not returning!

For me it's the collecting interest that counts, and while I take an overall liking to the history behind it too then the money (or investment) will take a back seat. In other words I'm in that 'middle of the road' area of collecting that is supposedly suffering a bit of late, but thats all good for me as i'll in the meantime (hopefully) 'fill my boots' with some upgrades with the many smaller and becoming reputable coin dealers who have time for the likes of me.

BTW is the Spink yearly book any good these days? and has it improved? I heard they were to seperate it into two (pre and decimal) this coming edition? or maybe they are not bothered about this either! To be honest I think a lot of the entries in it are so off the mark it's obvious it's just an annual, I think I'll buy myself the Beano instead this year!!

[VickySilver]

It has been my thought for many years that this ongoing and increasing stratification is going to really damage coins overall. If the collector base is damaged, much as in the analogy to pyramids, there may be a crumble to eventually occur.

How much notoriety can you have if there is no audience to appreciate. Not that it is my motivation, but I think that may be the reason for some collectors going for the marquee coins - they are coveted by the many, which may not be so many soon.

I don't know about other readers, but I find very little to buy these days if I stick to my original focus as the choice bits have gone ballistic.

[Rob]

I've only bought 26 coins this calendar year compared to 45 last year. Like you, I find the pieces I want are going way over what I am prepared to pay - in some instances probably double what I would have paid a year ago.

[TomGoodheart]

Well, I'm very clearly not in the Spink market then! My top budget is closer to £500. In 2013 I have bought seven coins, two off eBay, two from a dealer and the other three auction purchases.

8 or 9 years ago all of those coins (respectable examples, two with a bit of traceable provenance) could have come from the SNC. Sure, I didn't pay £000s for them, but they are what I consider decent bread and butter coins that few dealers would be unwilling to list. As far as I can see, that market remains, just without Spink.

Sure, concentrating on rarities brings in the big money. But rarities, by their nature, are not frequently encountered. Spink may not want to be Tesco. But even Harrods sells run-of-the-mill items as well as the diamond encrusted iPhone cases.

[Peckris]

Well, I'm very clearly not in the Spink market then! My top budget is closer to £500. In 2013 I have bought seven coins, two off eBay, two from a dealer and the other three auction purchases.

8 or 9 years ago all of those coins (respectable examples, two with a bit of traceable provenance) could have come from the SNC. Sure, I didn't pay £000s for them, but they are what I consider decent bread and butter coins that few dealers would be unwilling to list. As far as I can see, that market remains, just without Spink.

Sure, concentrating on rarities brings in the big money. But rarities, by their nature, are not frequently encountered. Spink may not want to be Tesco. But even Harrods sells run-of-the-mill items as well as the diamond encrusted iPhone cases.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one then! From Rob's comments above, it seemed that the 'average' 'middle ground' collector would casually spend £1k per coin. From what I've seen, there are members here who would and do, and good luck to them, but we're not all in the same boat.