1863 Open 3 Revisited

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

On 10/6/2017 at 4:00 AM, secret santa said:

Here's a decent one.

SPECTACULAR! !!

[zookeeperz]

7 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

SPECTACULAR! !!

Wow that must be the finest know surely? Be worth an absolute fortune . I am drooling fantastic coin  I looked on London coin auctions and the finest they have ever seen was VF/GVF and that sold for £1500

Edited October 10, 2017 by zookeeperz

[RLC35]

That looks like Michael Gouby's example. 

[secret santa]

20 hours ago, RLC35 said:

That looks like Michael Gouby's example. 

I actually bought it from Michael Gouby 14 years ago.

[mrbadexample]

Following on from the is it / isn't it debate on the ebay's worst offerings thread, and using the above for comparison, is the top example here an open 3?

[jelida]

I don’t think so, it’s another photo illusion.

Jerry

[PWA 1967]

I am better off saying nothing 

But that looks like the ebay one.......So will have to say not 

[mrbadexample]

27 minutes ago, jelida said:

I don’t think so, it’s another photo illusion.

Jerry

That's unfortunate. Someone paid a lot of money for it.

http://londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=147&searchlot=2922&searchtype=2

[jelida]

48 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

That's unfortunate. Someone paid a lot of money for it.

http://londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=147&searchlot=2922&searchtype=2

Gosh! Well, I hope I am wrong, photos can lie both ways, and LCA are not usually wrong!

Jerry

[jelida]

Just had a look at the LCA coins, that one does look dubious compared to the rest, but then look at the proportions of the 6 compared to Richards photo, I think it is a case of a poor resolution image and a photographically squashed exergue . As it is LCA I am sure it is OK in the hand, though I don’t remember if I looked at it at the auction. So I am back-tracking on this one, which goes to show how difficult to judge from poor quality photos, I have been caught out before on the bay, though for less than a tenner.

The Ebay coin above though is as Rob says simply die wear or fill taking away the tail of the 3.

Jerry

Edited October 11, 2017 by jelida
Typo

[mrbadexample]

It is difficult to tell from the LCA photos, I agree. The bit that makes me think twice is the pointing of the downstroke of the 3. Seems to be aiming a bit low compared to Richard's. 

[secret santa]

here's Laurie Bamford's example.

[RLC35]

Below is a reference from Gouby's Book. Notice the Open 3 has a spike at the top left of the 3...

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

15 hours ago, RLC35 said:

Below is a reference from Gouby's Book. Notice the Open 3 has a spike at the top left of the 3...

Beat me to it.....

 

[Rob]

With the odd spike pointing down, was this originally an 1861 die, filled and recut? Is that shape of 3 seen anywhere else to suggest it is a complete punch?

[davidrj]

55 minutes ago, Rob said:

With the odd spike pointing down, was this originally an 1861 die, filled and recut? Is that shape of 3 seen anywhere else to suggest it is a complete punch?

Or a botched 5 over 3?

[RLC35]

43 minutes ago, davidrj said:

Or a botched 5 over 3?

David, I have always thought it might have been a modified "5", to make it pass as a 3, when a 3 punch was not available.

[zookeeperz]

Is it, is it? Come on don't sit on the fence you know it is   but seriously is this one ?

[PWA 1967]

I like to learn on here.....Going to say NO but i am always wrong 

[Michael-Roo]

 

No.

[zookeeperz]

3 minutes ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

No.

Just testing. 3 too far away. strange shape though top very short  

[Rob]

I'm going to be a contrarian and say yes.

What is the question?

[RLC35]

11 minutes ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

No.

I'm with you Mike...No :-)

[zookeeperz]

2 minutes ago, RLC35 said:

I'm with you Mike...No :-)

I thought it also looked like it might with a stretch be 3/5 Is what is making the 3 look like its pointing horizontal and there are two finishing points on the tail and an extended top part behind the where the right top edge starts but prob just my eyes playing tricks

 

[alfnail]

Richard's pennyvarieties website has recently been updated re. 1863 open 3 reverses to include the attached types, which are additional to his excellent example at the top of this page. I believe that all 3 types have been sold as open 3's at LCA