Paulus Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I think we could do with a sub-forum on here for fakes/forgeries, so it will be easier to check against? Quote
Coinery Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Pretty certain the Charles I shilling is fake. The rest ..well, I'm not sure about them, but they aren't my area. Anyone any views?http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/millfield2002/m.html?item=331254698500&hash=item4d20519204&pt=UK_Coins_BritishHammered_RL&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562Confirmation that the H8 Laker Groat is a cast pewter copy! The dark blue background is the coin I had! Quote
Coinery Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I think we could do with a sub-forum on here for fakes/forgeries, so it will be easier to check against? It's a pinned thread which is a good start! Edit: I think we should definitely put it in members only, though! Edited July 8, 2014 by Coinery Quote
TomGoodheart Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Edit: I think we should definitely put it in members only, though! LOLOL!Oh, and I've had confirmation both groats in the earlier listing are copies which means it's a hat-trick for the seller as all three coins listed are now confirmed fakes! :angry: Quote
Paulus Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Further to everything that has been said and posted on the topics of fakes and forgeries on this forum, it occurs to me that it is beholden to US to make it easier for people to check if they have, or are thinking of buying, or selling, a known dodgy one ... I have been very lucky, and have got my money back on all coins so far identified as fake that I have acquired over the last 6 years or so (mainly thanks to this Forum)... but it stands to reason that I may have others I do not know about, and other members may have too ...I guess I am mainly talking about modern (non-contemporary) British coin forgeries here, and there are not so many that we couldn't deal with keeping it up to date with our collective knowledge ...Thoughts please, I think we should own this and deal with it, no-one else is doing so! Edited July 8, 2014 by Paulus Quote
Red Riley Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Just a quick word on the BNTA, they now effectively self-select as one of their entrance criteria is that members have to be VAT registered, which cuts out 99% of dealers anyway. The more I look at it, the more it appears as if they are acting as some sort of numismatic freemasonry. Information on fakes should be in the public domain and not used as some type of sales tool. Quote
azda Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) The problem being with fakes being known and in the public Domain is that it will also help the forgers. I can understand on the one hand why they'd like it to be a rather select group who can access the database but on the other it does'nt really help the collector.I for one am all for something to be Put in place here to help us, maybe something secure (more than the members section) as a few of us has helped collected and find fakes.The other scenario is for Chris to perhaps get a book out on the subject., i think it would be a best seller amoungst the serious hobbyist.Sorry if my Sentiment sounds elitest, but i not wanting to arm the forgers with more ammo so they can better their fakes. Edited July 10, 2014 by azda Quote
Paulus Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby. Quote
Gary1000 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby.Or was it deliberate due to some inticracy in the laws where they were made. Fake vs replica vs forgery etc. Quote
Nick Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby.The major auction houses and slabbing companies should be playing a part here. Each time they reject a coin as fake, pictures should be stored in their online archives clearly labelled and searchable as such. Quote
Gary1000 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby.The major auction houses and slabbing companies should be playing a part here. Each time they reject a coin as fake, pictures should be stored in their online archives clearly labelled and searchable as such.What are the legalities about owning a fake or submitting it. Could the TPG before returning it take a metal punch and stamp a great big F in the middle of it. Quote
Peckris Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby.The major auction houses and slabbing companies should be playing a part here. Each time they reject a coin as fake, pictures should be stored in their online archives clearly labelled and searchable as such.What are the legalities about owning a fake or submitting it. Could the TPG before returning it take a metal punch and stamp a great big F in the middle of it.There's nothing illegal about owning a fake, and of course there's nothing illegal about sending a fake to a TPG. However, as TPGs' reputation rests on their 'authentication', you would think they have, or should have, an up to date archive of all known forgeries. And if they do have, it should be made available to everyone. Quote
Paulus Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby.The major auction houses and slabbing companies should be playing a part here. Each time they reject a coin as fake, pictures should be stored in their online archives clearly labelled and searchable as such.What are the legalities about owning a fake or submitting it. Could the TPG before returning it take a metal punch and stamp a great big F in the middle of it.There's nothing illegal about owning a fake, and of course there's nothing illegal about sending a fake to a TPG. However, as TPGs' reputation rests on their 'authentication', you would think they have, or should have, an up to date archive of all known forgeries. And if they do have, it should be made available to everyone.Perhaps, like the BNTA, they have a misguided vested interest in keeping the information to themselves Quote
Peckris Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Chris, can we have a sub-forum for fakes please? I guess it's up to you whether the content is only available for members, but at the moment it is all over the place and available to the public, as I think it should be.Dave (Azda) makes a good point - and if the (forgers) hadn't made a schoolboy error of 180 degree rotation on the 1818 HC they would be even harder to spot. So pointing that out to them results in better forgeries perhaps, but I think on balance it will help us keep ahead of the game.Thoughts please, this is threatening our hobby.The major auction houses and slabbing companies should be playing a part here. Each time they reject a coin as fake, pictures should be stored in their online archives clearly labelled and searchable as such.What are the legalities about owning a fake or submitting it. Could the TPG before returning it take a metal punch and stamp a great big F in the middle of it.There's nothing illegal about owning a fake, and of course there's nothing illegal about sending a fake to a TPG. However, as TPGs' reputation rests on their 'authentication', you would think they have, or should have, an up to date archive of all known forgeries. And if they do have, it should be made available to everyone.Perhaps, like the BNTA, they have a misguided vested interest in keeping the information to themselves Quote
loose54 Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Good afternoon all,I have just come across this seller on ebay. He is knocking out counterfeit coins like he is making them in his own shed. He is saying that they are forgeries but in his own words they are 'indistinguishable from the originals'. Some of the coins are obvious copies and would be very likely to fool most but there are ones such as this 1932 crown which in all honesty could fool even an experienced collector from photographs. I can understand why people collect contemporary counterfeits, I myself have a few, as they are historically interesting, but the production of coins such as this can surely result in nothing more then someone down the line getting badly stung!http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-CROWN-1932-U-K-REMAKE-UNCIRCULATED-/301337280421?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item462919ffa5 Quote
Alexxx Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Hello!I bought two silver coins: Half rupee 1945 (George VI, security edge) and Australian shilling 1910.http://imgur.com/a/KncxA%C2'>Please, help me to recognize: are this coins fake or genuine?Thanks. Quote
Alexxx Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Images here:https://imageshack.com/i/f0T9FxGGjhttps://imageshack.com/i/exM5nAB4jhttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/673/lOsYRi.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/540/pXYbiL.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/912/dL6ypm.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/537/EiAHDj.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/661/wVOUd3.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/674/o5Nzab.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/540/BK9cir.jpghttp://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/905/tSKpkO.jpg Quote
Chris Perkins Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 The 1910 shilling is a fake. Looks like a Chinese copy. 1945 Half Rupee is probably ok. Quote
Chris Perkins Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I logged in to the BNTA forgeries network thingy just now, eager to see what had been going down. This is the place where BNTA members can go to check for forgery data and submit details and images of forgeries that they have been made aware of.Since it launched in July this year, in its 3 categories (Ancient, English and Foreign) there have been exactly 0 new entries! There are still a grand total of 8 forgeries listed in the database.Doesn't look like it's been all that successful so far. Quote
TomGoodheart Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Mmmm ... Thing is that ForgeryNetwork was set up some time ago and so it feels a bit like reinventing the wheel. Plus it needs BNTA member(s) to enter the details. And ... speaking from experience, I and a couple of others from here are already members of an informal network who alert each other about suspect coins via email.It will take time and effort for someone to bring the BNTA database up to speed and perhaps to keep it updated, so perhaps not too surprising nobody has 'volunteered'.And of course, unless it's viewable by the general public the number of people who will see it and benefit will be small .. Quote
Peter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 We have 4 pages on this forum.I often go back and have a look. Quote
TomGoodheart Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Um ... Does this look a bit dodgy to anyone else? Or is it just me? (Sorry can't do links atm)321562823917 Quote
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