more FAKES

[Martinminerva]

22 minutes ago, david.bordeaux said:

they look absolutely spot on (unless I'm missing something).

And this is increasingly the problem...

Whilst somewhere there will no doubt be a few genuine high grade die number 64's, as has been said above the VAST MAJORITY of these are modern, high quality white metal pressure cast fakes originating in the Far East. The cud on the N of tenth is a good pointer to these as well as the attendant fine circumferential die crack that connects many of the letters of the reverse legend - maybe a fault in the original pressure mould or on the original host coin, but now replicated manifold.

Unless you can do a metal test or a conductivity test (such as with one of today's sophisticated metal detectors), I would be VERY wary of purchasing a die 64 1864 florin!

Beware also of course "nice" 1905 halfcrowns,  wreath crowns, 1850 shillings and so on. All have their diagnostic flaws some easier to spot than others - eg. wrong font 5 and 0 (too large and bulbous) on the shillings, dodgy QVI in the garter of the halfcrowns etc.

Other fakes that aren't taken from a host coin, such as the quarter farthings mentioned above and the plethora of replica 1933 pennies, but which are made with modern CAD created dies are easier to spot as they just aren't accurate enough, but still fool many collectors, both novice and more experienced. Beware!

[Rob]

10 minutes ago, david.bordeaux said:

And another in Noonan's sale on 10 May, Lot 103. But I'm not entirely convinced that these 1864 florins (all with obverse die no. 64) are fakes. Apart from the strange "n" in tenth, they look absolutely spot on (unless I'm missing something). Could they simply be genuine coins with an error on the reverse die that was paired with obverse die no. 64?

Look at it a different way. It's either the 2021 coin that has been dipped, or what are the odds on the two dozen identical scratches, nicks, lumps etc appearing on two coins.

Attached is an image from when this was discussed previously with the copy similarities highlighted. The resolution isn't wonderful, but the only matching item on the reverse appears to be the small mark on the right edge of the bottom shield. The obverse has numerous matching marks including behind the head, including the bigger scratches in the field. I'm still suspicious. 

[Peckris 2]

11 hours ago, Rob said:

Look at it a different way. It's either the 2021 coin that has been dipped, or what are the odds on the two dozen identical scratches, nicks, lumps etc appearing on two coins.

Attached is an image from when this was discussed previously with the copy similarities highlighted. The resolution isn't wonderful, but the only matching item on the reverse appears to be the small mark on the right edge of the bottom shield. The obverse has numerous matching marks including behind the head, including the bigger scratches in the field. I'm still suspicious.

Astronomical. Die imperfections I can live with, but not identical digs which - being incuse - cannot have come from anything to do with the die.

[DrLarry]

Is it possible they use a laser digital scanner to scan the original coin then create the die from that ?  in which case the same imperfections might be copied into the laser cut die.  If that is possible ???  

[Martinminerva]

As far as I understand it, they use an original coin to cast a mould from, and then use the mould to pressure cast dies, from which the fakes are then struck. I don't know if digital scanning is yet employed, but certainly quite feasible. But either way, any imperfections on the original host coin are indeed replicated on every fake, along with any moulding flaws (such as the dodgy QVI on 1905 halfcrowns, dings and dents on eg. 1818 halfcrowns and wreath crowns) and alterations made (such as changing the digits to mimic an 1850 shilling as hinted above), which is how an astute viewer can identify them as copies.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Martinminerva
Further details.

[DrLarry]

I know everyone says it is a waste of time reporting fake coins on ebay but I do try to do a few a week .....I suppose it is akin to picking up litter when walking the dogs 

[DrLarry]

Not that it's likely that fake makers will read our topic , but I suppose we risk advising them on what to change in the next batch to bake .  

[copper123]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:13 PM, DrLarry said:

I know everyone says it is a waste of time reporting fake coins on ebay but I do try to do a few a week .....I suppose it is akin to picking up litter when walking the dogs 

A bit like pissing in the wind , makes you feel good but leaves you totally exasperated

[DrLarry]

Ebay seem to be getting a little lost with their reporting .  I saw a seller the other day selling an 1882 penny no H and an 1850 shilling.  All shilling fakes from china have a flaw on the right ride of the acorn wreath half way up ..the copies are quite good and when you get them they obviously are not silver... however I had a message saying that the report had been checked by an AI investigative tool and found "not be in violation of the listing policy "  rather silly really because if they could grasp that these flaws exist they could learn by experiences when something looks like a fake it usually is one ...the audacity !!!!LOL that the machine new better than MEMEME !!!!!LOL 

 

Merry Christmas everyone 

[Mr T]

Got pictures of the fake 1850 shilling?