Chinese fakes

[Peter]

I think it would be a good idea to start a thread on Chinese fakes of UK coins(SEUK you are OK I'm not out to hang contemporary counterfeits)

1 1763 Northumberland shilling

2 Gothic Victorian Crown

3 Edward V11 1905 halfcrown

4 1798 George 111 guineas

5 Victoria crowns-1887 to 1900

6 Henry V111 groats

7 1818 George 111 halfcrown

8 1819 George 111 halfcrown

there are the other fakes which are well known but not necessarily of Chinese origin.

Ashmore coins.Museum reproductions.

Look out for Copy,R,WRL(Westair reproduction coins)discreetly marked and a pewter 1562 (sixpence size) coin.This has a heart shaped indentation on the reverse (top left hand corner)

The Chinese are also faking sovereigns of different mints.

If anyone can add more Chinese fakes which are fooling experienced collectors and dealers please list them (start at 9 please so we can produce a logical list).We can link these back to examples of the various fakes.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Peter

[Gary]

9 1937 Crown

10 1887 Young Head Halfcrown

Have one of each. Could possibly be of east european origin. Both made of white metal with the crown being artificially toned. Weights are wrong.

How long before we see an influx of fakes of high value copper/bronze coins?

[azda]

The gothic crown is a difficult one as no one seems to know why they are fake. Perhaps weight is the only logical way to Tell? Northumberland seems to be the most common at the minute but with the high number of gothics circulating, these could come a close 2nd

[Peter]

9 1937 Crown

10 1887 Young Head Halfcrown

Have one of each. Could possibly be of east european origin. Both made of white metal with the crown being artificially toned. Weights are wrong.

How long before we see an influx of fakes of high value copper/bronze coins?

I think we can happily include any modern forgeries regardless of origin.

[numismatist]

From earlier posts

11, Numerous Charles 1st Shillings have been noted that look very worrying

[Gary D]

From earlier posts

11, Numerous Charles 1st Shillings have been noted that look very worrying

12. 1935 crown, why

[Flash]

Fake no date 20p's are abundant at Cheshire car boot sales. I've no interest in the original tbh, the most overhyped waste of money ever! so wouldn't be able to say how good they are or what the differences are, they seem passable though.

[Flash]

Fake no date 20p's are abundant at Cheshire car boot sales. I've no interest in the original tbh, the most overhyped waste of money ever! so wouldn't be able to say how good they are or what the differences are, they seem passable though.

Forgot to mention it's not just the chinese. Israel and Spain have been faking for decades and their copies are everywhere also. Gold for the former and basically anything old and Spanish, Spanish colonial, Portugese etc for the latter.

[seuk]

I still would opt for a subforum for counterfeits. With threads for each type of coin. That will make it much easier to find old threads and add new info to earlier ones.

Thinking fx of the sceatta coinage - it would be nice to have a place where one could see all the Museumreproduction coins etc.

Some time ago I bought 3 modern counterfeits of 1898, 1935 and 1937 crowns from a German seller. They all looks cast have milled edge are magnetic and underweight so no big problem. Perhaps they were made to fool tourists(?)

[niyuco]

Fake 1818 Halfcrown from China. Not very convincing in the hand. Size is correct but underweight (12.4g).

[seuk]

Fake 1818 Halfcrown from China. Not very convincing in the hand. Size is correct but underweight (12.4g).

These are described in an earlier thread

They come in both low and high grade copies however all seems to have the reverse turned 180 degrees.

Edited May 2, 2012 by seuk

[Gary]

1864 Florin

1864 Florin

[declan03]

1897 half crown White metal.

[CartwheelTwopence]

I don't know why wou would want to fake it, but I have a magnetic 1977 crown. I know it is a fake because it is dated 1877. I simply can't understand why you would want to fake a coin worth 50p tops...

[Peckris]

I don't know why wou would want to fake it, but I have a magnetic 1977 crown. I know it is a fake because it is dated 1877. I simply can't understand why you would want to fake a coin worth 50p tops...

Ouch. Don't mention that particular one to Dave. Sore point.

[ozjohn]

From time to time I see George 111 coins on Ebay listed as reproductions but in my opinion these are fakes and could be used by third parties to deceive. They are not of a high grade nevertheless they do not help the situation and should not be on Ebay.uk . I think in the US reproductions like this are allowed if they have something stamped into the coin such as reproduction etc. but these listings had nothing on them to indicate this. I would have thought under UK law items such as this are illegal as they are counterfeit coins and should not be listed by Ebay.uk.

[Nick]

From time to time I see George 111 coins on Ebay listed as reproductions but in my opinion these are fakes and could be used by third parties to deceive. They are not of a high grade nevertheless they do not help the situation and should not be on Ebay.uk . I think in the US reproductions like this are allowed if they have something stamped into the coin such as reproduction etc. but these listings had nothing on them to indicate this. I would have thought under UK law items such as this are illegal as they are counterfeit coins and should not be listed by Ebay.uk.

Counterfeit coins are illegal, but only if they are current as they are intended to be spent as money. Fakes are intended to defraud collectors. According to eBay "rules", neither are allowed, but given they refuse to enforce these rules - fakes are seen on a daily basis.

[Peckris]

From time to time I see George 111 coins on Ebay listed as reproductions but in my opinion these are fakes and could be used by third parties to deceive. They are not of a high grade nevertheless they do not help the situation and should not be on Ebay.uk . I think in the US reproductions like this are allowed if they have something stamped into the coin such as reproduction etc. but these listings had nothing on them to indicate this. I would have thought under UK law items such as this are illegal as they are counterfeit coins and should not be listed by Ebay.uk.

If you're talking about "silver" post-1816 coins that are actually copper washed with silver, these are actually not fakes but forgeries produced at the time. Collectors know all about these (indeed our own seuk has made an expert study of them), and they should be classed as 'items of interest' and not as counterfeits. And in the US, GIII copper "evasions" from the mid-18th Century are widely collected and valued.

If they are actually modern reproductions and sold as such, I don't see that any law has been broken if they are not misrepresented.

[Michael-Roo]

From time to time I see George 111 coins on Ebay listed as reproductions but in my opinion these are fakes and could be used by third parties to deceive. They are not of a high grade nevertheless they do not help the situation and should not be on Ebay.uk . I think in the US reproductions like this are allowed if they have something stamped into the coin such as reproduction etc. but these listings had nothing on them to indicate this. I would have thought under UK law items such as this are illegal as they are counterfeit coins and should not be listed by Ebay.uk.

If you're talking about "silver" post-1816 coins that are actually copper washed with silver, these are actually not fakes but forgeries produced at the time. Collectors know all about these (indeed our own seuk has made an expert study of them), and they should be classed as 'items of interest' and not as counterfeits. And in the US, GIII copper "evasions" from the mid-18th Century are widely collected and valued.

If they are actually modern reproductions and sold as such, I don't see that any law has been broken if they are not misrepresented.

They may be sold described as modern repros by the manufacturer but, as they don't carry any mark making it clear as to what they are, I suppose problems could arise further down the line?

[Peckris]

From time to time I see George 111 coins on Ebay listed as reproductions but in my opinion these are fakes and could be used by third parties to deceive. They are not of a high grade nevertheless they do not help the situation and should not be on Ebay.uk . I think in the US reproductions like this are allowed if they have something stamped into the coin such as reproduction etc. but these listings had nothing on them to indicate this. I would have thought under UK law items such as this are illegal as they are counterfeit coins and should not be listed by Ebay.uk.

If you're talking about "silver" post-1816 coins that are actually copper washed with silver, these are actually not fakes but forgeries produced at the time. Collectors know all about these (indeed our own seuk has made an expert study of them), and they should be classed as 'items of interest' and not as counterfeits. And in the US, GIII copper "evasions" from the mid-18th Century are widely collected and valued.

If they are actually modern reproductions and sold as such, I don't see that any law has been broken if they are not misrepresented.

They may be sold described as modern repros by the manufacturer but, as they don't carry any mark making it clear as to what they are, I suppose problems could arise further down the line?

Indeed they could - but that's the responsibility of a future 'rogue trader', not of eBay or an honest seller. After all, bottles of Chanel are sold every day without regard to the Del Boys of this world who will go around collecting up the empties, filling them with cheap scent, and flogging them out of a suitcase on Peckham High Street ("fell off the back of a lorry, John, take it from me..").