Ebay's Worst Offerings

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

Interesting - very nice coin .. but it says 0 bids?

It does now, but it's obviously been re-set to zero. There were quite a few.

[Paddy]

9 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Interesting - very nice coin .. but it says 0 bids?

Yes - when the seller ends an item early he effectively cancels all bids, so the count will show as zero.

As suggested I suspect someone made him an offer to deal outside of Ebay, which he accepted. Whilst this is frustrating for other buyers, and he may have done it just to avoid Ebay fees, it can be for other reasons. I have (had) a number of regular visitors looking at coins and sometimes they would want to buy a coin I had up on Ebay - in which case I am not going to turn them down and insist they buy online, so I will end the item early and deal direct.

Also some Ebay sellers also have a website and sell through that as well, in which case they would also need to end items early, though these don't usually list at auction, but rather as Buy it Now.

 

[blakeyboy]

So, Paddy, if you stop an auction to sell to a regular client, for, say, £100, how do you know that the auction, had it continued,

wouldn't have raised £200?

 

I've been in the position where I've left a bid of £1000 on some old electronics, and the auction has been stopped at a couple of hundred.

Very frustrating.   It turned out I knew the buyer and he had offered £500 and the seller took it.

I also knew the seller and was going to tell him he lost £500....but did he?.........?

Second bidder may only have bidder £110....

 

The only problem here isn't monetary- it's moral.

My view is that if you can't find a buyer for something, then auction it on ebay.

If you take it down because a buyer contacts you, you've used ebay as an advertising site,

which it isn't.

 

In the vintage pro-audio business, people who mess people about on ebay generally have to pay more for stuff from other collectors

since everyone knows what they are like.  People in the business don't rush to recommend them either.

They are only successful when dealing with people who don't know anything. This costs them in the long run.

After all, they have no idea whom they have really annoyed every time they stopped an auction.....

 

If ebay ran like an auction house, so when you put up an item it stayed up until the end, things would be better.

 

[jelida]

12 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Anyone else notice how often this happens when a really choice piece is on offer:-

In this case it was an 1871 penny. A very nice coin. I didn't actually want it myself, but was keeping an eye on what it would fetch, out of interest. It had reached £82 with 5 days to go.

I wonder if an offer is made privately to the vendor, that's then dealt with outside e bay?

link to item  

I was watching four or five of his coins, including the 1860 T over T penny, one of a batch of identical coins sold by Baldwins a couple of years ago- I bought one then and I know Secret Santa did too; his coin, now slabbed, had already reached double the Baldwins hammer price. And the nice 1868 penny was already at a good figure, and his William and Maria halfpenny, stated to be UNC (more like AEF to me and not a particularly good strike) was at £700ish, all were withdrawn together, with three days to go. Altogether rather strange unless he made a bulk sale, or just felt the market wasn’t supporting his aspirations.

Jerry

Edited May 29, 2020 by jelida

[Rob]

I think we have all missed out on a withdrawn piece at some time on eBay, as it's something that has always happened and is quite frustrating. Having said that, the near complete absence of competitive bidding with items frequently selling for opening bids is a huge part of the problem. As nice as it might be to let the market find its own level, it is fair to say that the platform is too congested to give widespread exposure and hence generate interest in a particular item. If someone then makes an offer that is acceptable, the only issue is a moral one.

You might test the water every so often by listing an item with a value higher than a £1 starting price, but if the result is a say £30 coin going for a quid every time, it isn't surprising that people take things down having received an offer. The alternative is to list things at a starting price you are willing to sell at. Then you have a guarantee of no competitive bidding, leading to perpetual re-listings because eventually someone will buy it if the price is within reason.

If ebay had a facility to make a higher offer on items starting at a quid just as they do a lower one for a BIN, then there could be no complaints.

The simple truth is that ebay has got too big and is unwieldy, satisfying virtually nobody.

[Rob]

20 minutes ago, jelida said:

I was watching four or five of his coins, including the 1860 T over T penny, one of a batch of identical coins sold by Baldwins a couple of years ago- I bought one then and I know Secret Santa did too; his coin, now slabbed, had already reached double the Baldwins hammer price. And the nice 1868 penny was already at a good figure, and his William and Maria halfpenny, stated to be UNC (more like AEF to me and not a particularly good strike) was at £700ish, all were withdrawn together, with three days to go. Altogether rather strange unless he made a bulk sale, or just felt the market wasn’t supporting his aspirations.

Jerry

Could also have been withdrawn to relist them under a £1 listing fee offer. A 10% fee on anything listed for hundreds, suddenly becomes quite significant. £1 is not the end of the world.

[Paddy]

2 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

So, Paddy, if you stop an auction to sell to a regular client, for, say, £100, how do you know that the auction, had it continued,

wouldn't have raised £200?

 

I've been in the position where I've left a bid of £1000 on some old electronics, and the auction has been stopped at a couple of hundred.

Very frustrating.   It turned out I knew the buyer and he had offered £500 and the seller took it.

I also knew the seller and was going to tell him he lost £500....but did he?.........?

Second bidder may only have bidder £110....

 

The only problem here isn't monetary- it's moral.

My view is that if you can't find a buyer for something, then auction it on ebay.

If you take it down because a buyer contacts you, you've used ebay as an advertising site,

which it isn't.

 

In the vintage pro-audio business, people who mess people about on ebay generally have to pay more for stuff from other collectors

since everyone knows what they are like.  People in the business don't rush to recommend them either.

They are only successful when dealing with people who don't know anything. This costs them in the long run.

After all, they have no idea whom they have really annoyed every time they stopped an auction.....

 

If ebay ran like an auction house, so when you put up an item it stayed up until the end, things would be better.

 

I agree using Ebay as an advertising means, then stopping the show to sell direct is immoral - I don't do that and I get as frustrated as any other buyer when sellers do that with items I have been watching.

When I sell at auction, I would not end an item early because a regular visitor had offered me a price for it. When I list at auction it is because I do not know really how high it will go, and so I like to let it run and find out.

 If I have things at BIN and a visitor is prepared to buy it at that price, then I am happy to end the item and sell it to him.

When I auction things I do get people asking for a BIN price. Occasionally, if it is really generous, I may accept, but more usually I tell them just to bid like everyone else. If I do decide to take their offer, I do it through Ebay.

 

[JLS]

32 minutes ago, Rob said:

Could also have been withdrawn to relist them under a £1 listing fee offer. A 10% fee on anything listed for hundreds, suddenly becomes quite significant. £1 is not the end of the world.

But AFAIK he's going to have to pay 10% of the current bids as a final value fee ? The cost of withdrawing a listing with a £600 bid on it like the W&M halfpenny he had listed is substantial. 

I'm not sure what sort of aspirations he had for those pieces, because they seemed to have generated a lot of interest - if he wants the sort of prices a top auction house could generate he should be prepared to pay more than an effective ~12.5% fee !

[Rob]

17 minutes ago, JLS said:

But AFAIK he's going to have to pay 10% of the current bids as a final value fee ? The cost of withdrawing a listing with a £600 bid on it like the W&M halfpenny he had listed is substantial. 

I'm not sure what sort of aspirations he had for those pieces, because they seemed to have generated a lot of interest - if he wants the sort of prices a top auction house could generate he should be prepared to pay more than an effective ~12.5% fee !

Not if it is shilled. I've lost count of the number of second offers I have had on pricier (and cheaper) items. The number of people who it is claimed haven't paid when I have come second seems far in excess of the percentage of buyers who haven't paid me for items won.

[JLS]

12 hours ago, Rob said:

Not if it is shilled. I've lost count of the number of second offers I have had on pricier (and cheaper) items. The number of people who it is claimed haven't paid when I have come second seems far in excess of the percentage of buyers who haven't paid me for items won.

True, that hadn't occurred to me. 

 

[bagerap]

I'm interested in the mechanics of such a sale. How does it work? If the seller does not have a web site, ebay's watch dogs will surely put the kybosh on any attempt to strike a private deal. I've had messages censored for attempting to pass on my email address for a totally unrelated matter.

[Paddy]

7 hours ago, bagerap said:

I'm interested in the mechanics of such a sale. How does it work? If the seller does not have a web site, ebay's watch dogs will surely put the kybosh on any attempt to strike a private deal. I've had messages censored for attempting to pass on my email address for a totally unrelated matter.

Ebay's detection system is automated and not fool proof. As far as I understand it detects the "@" sign in any attempt to send a personal email address through their messaging system. Giving an email as "joe_bloggs at hotmail.com" seems to get through. (I have used this when wanting t stay in contact with someone met through Ebay - but not to cheat!)

[1949threepence]

5 hours ago, Paddy said:

Ebay's detection system is automated and not fool proof. As far as I understand it detects the "@" sign in any attempt to send a personal email address through their messaging system. Giving an email as "joe_bloggs at hotmail.com" seems to get through. (I have used this when wanting t stay in contact with someone met through Ebay - but not to cheat!)

Also the seller could either give their personal phone number out in a message or ask the potential buyer to - or maybe the buyer has already supplied their number in the first personal e bay message to the seller.   

[hibernianscribe]

The seller of this is optimistic....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elizabeth-I-Medieval-Silver-Threepence-Coin-1/193490871283?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

[Rob]

12 minutes ago, hibernianscribe said:

The seller of this is optimistic....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elizabeth-I-Medieval-Silver-Threepence-Coin-1/193490871283?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

Covering all bases there. Elizabeth I - maybe; medieval - maybe (but mutually exclusive with the first part); silver - best chance of being right; threepence - maybe; coin - maybe

[Diaconis]

it’s the grubby prosthetic bubble wrap that puts me off.

[mick1271]

2 hours ago, hibernianscribe said:

The seller of this is optimistic....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elizabeth-I-Medieval-Silver-Threepence-Coin-1/193490871283?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

The only piece of that that looks even slightly identifiable is what looks like 2 pellets next to a shadow of someone , which would make it a half groat .

[Peckris 2]

9 hours ago, hibernianscribe said:

The seller of this is optimistic....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elizabeth-I-Medieval-Silver-Threepence-Coin-1/193490871283?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

Bloody US eBay and their infernal cookie requests. 😠 I backed out of there tood sweet.

 

[jelida]

Looking at athenacoins_7’s offerings(now relisted, having been pulled en masse a week ago) and the silly sums that some have reached, particularly the this penny https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1860-Penny-Error-PCGS-MS65RB-Victoria-Great-Britain-S3954/174301977930?hash=item2895351d4a:g:MjsAAOSwjDJexYYQ  I had a look at the bidding patterns and note that bidders with feedback ‘0’ and ‘110’ feature very strongly throughout his items. I strongly suspect that this dealer does indeed have the full shilling. Shill bidding being illegal , perhaps reporting might be appropriate if you agree.

Jerry

[Sword]

I am not commenting on any specific sellers. 

But what is ebay's official policy on reporting shill bidding? Please don't bother! 

"How do I report shill bidding?
If you think that another member is shill bidding, you don't need to report it to us. eBay has a number of systems in place to detect and monitor bidding patterns and practices. If we identify any malicious behaviour, we'll take steps to prevent it."

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-practices-policy/shill-bidding-policy?id=4353

 

[jelida]

There is a category for reporting this activity though, under ‘fraudulent listing practices’,  ‘Seller is using other accounts to inflate the price‘ would fit the bill. But as we have discussed so many times before, Ebay are not seriously interested in potential victims of fraud,  and seem rarely to take action on reports. The sooner internet giants are liable for the fraud they enable, the better. You or I would certainly be certainly liable in other spheres of life if we didn’t take action, once aware of an issue.
 

Jerry

[jelida]

2 hours ago, jelida said:

Looking at athenacoins_7’s offerings(now relisted, having been pulled en masse a week ago) and the silly sums that some have reached, particularly the this penny https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1860-Penny-Error-PCGS-MS65RB-Victoria-Great-Britain-S3954/174301977930?hash=item2895351d4a:g:MjsAAOSwjDJexYYQ  I had a look at the bidding patterns and note that bidders with feedback ‘0’ and ‘110’ feature very strongly throughout his items. I strongly suspect that this dealer does indeed have the full shilling. Shill bidding being illegal , perhaps reporting might be appropriate if you agree.

Jerry

Oh, and the second suspicious bidder on many of these coins now has feedback of 112. If you look, you’ll see what I mean.

Jerry

[1949threepence]

5 hours ago, jelida said:

Oh, and the second suspicious bidder on many of these coins now has feedback of 112. If you look, you’ll see what I mean.

Jerry

Quite obvious shill bidding. The coin itself lost all semblance of a credible price when it soared past £230.

Interestingly the latest bidder has no feedback. 

Of course, shill bidding is risky as the "shillers" can easily find themselves the only ones left in the race. Pretty obviously that will happen in this case. 

 

[1949threepence]

Congratulations to this bidder - £750.01, cheap at half the price lol

Bidder	Bid amount	Bid time
7***3(feedback score: 0)	£750.01	5 Jun 2020 at 4:21:06PM BST

 

[jelida]

Of the 18 coins on his completed listings, of which one attracted no bids, 14 have been won by a bidder of 0 feedback,  all at silly money, and 3 might have gone to a genuine bidder (or a shiller  with feedback). I hope he has to pay Ebay fees- but I suspect the ‘winners’ will mostly fail to pay and he will reclaim any fee. Look out for re-listing in a few weeks. He should be banned.
 

Jerry