Super happy with my new coin!

[absence of uniformity]

I'm pleased to share with this 1875H coin I have just purchased. (I think the seller missed the H) 

In your opinion what is the grade please of this coin, my gut feeling is GVF/GVF I'm inexperienced and am a bit lost when it comes to grading.

There is rim damage and a few stains, you can also just some some luster around some of the legends. I know the following is only a basic guide but its difficult for me to be sure how the coins grades.

1) VF-20

We start to see all major line in the hair. The thistle and shamrock decorations starts to appear. Clearly readable but lightly worn legends, illustrations show good detail, rims are clean, but the whole coin shows moderate wear on the high points.

2) EF-40

Hair lines are mostly sharp and distinct except above forehead. The rose, thistle and shamrock decorations are visible. Legends are sharp, illustrations are clear with slight but obvious wear on the high points.

3) AU-50

Hair above forehead are visible and dress details are distinct. Sharp legends and illustrations show only a trace of wear on the highest points. There must be some remaining mint luster."

Note inside the bottom of the Letter O in One the small flat part which does not appear to be damage.

I would be grateful to hear opinions please.

Thanks.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[PWA 1967]

My own opinion for what its worth is there is NO H there 😃.

[absence of uniformity]

4 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

My own opinion for what its worth is there is NO H there 😃.

 

[PWA 1967]

Just now, absence of uniformity said:

 

Its just a F82 for me.

[absence of uniformity]

And here is the sellers image

[absence of uniformity]

2 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

And here is the sellers image

@PWA 1967 I appreciate the input, In the sellers photos I can see a H. Can you not? What is the opinion of others? Thanks

Edited 21 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

4 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

@PWA 1967 I appreciate the input, In the sellers photos I can see a H. Can you not? What is the opinion of others? Thanks

Im going to study the 1875 and 1875 H there must be an identifiable die characteristic unique to the H coins. Lets see.

[absence of uniformity]

3 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Its just a F82 for me.

@PWA 1967 7 Vs 1 currently, I'm not sure myself, seems logical to favour the popular opinion😃 Thats why I love types like F90 Peter, clear as day.

Edited 18 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Images, photos, etc, can be deceptive and not necessarily deliberately.

The best determinant is studying the coin in hand.

[Coinery]

FWIW I don’t think it’s an H, just an anomaly of toning and surface metal.

The big issue is, if you’re going to call that an H, you then have to have an explanation for the Triangular shape that’s hovering between the digits?

[Coys55]

I can’t see an H either. I think there may be a blemish in there that the brain may try to interpret as something meaningful, especially if one is looking for it. 
 

Like the image of Jesus in a slice of toast or an alien face on Mars. 

[jelida]

It could be a filled die but I am not convinced of the presence of an ‘H’. Either way, I would want a clear cut example for my collection rather than one that will likely remain uncertain.

In terms of grade, don’t confuse the UK grading system with the US Sheldon scale; their AU is more akin to our EF and their EF40 is about our VF. The book you need is 

https://coinpublications.com/product/the-standard-guide-to-grading-british-coins/
 

Jerry

[secret santa]

I would say it's an F82. The figure 5 is more upright on the 1875H.

[absence of uniformity]

49 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I would say it's an F82. The figure 5 is more upright on the 1875H.

Thanks, I dont have a clue what I'm talking about hence me posting here about it. 

One thought I had if the 5 is manually added or punched would that account for variation in the position of the 5.  Please see the following image.

[Martinminerva]

8 hours ago, absence of uniformity said:

In the sellers photos I can see a H. Can you not? What is the opinion of others?

Definitely NOT an H. As you can see from Secret Santa's post above too, the H if present is smaller than the smudge/toning/anomaly you have where the H would be.  Many times we all wish the presence of something and convince ourselves from a humble picture that a smudge or blob just might be the magic thing!  I myself must have bought over the years half a dozen 1863 pennies with "something" perhaps below the date which just might possibly have been a die number with a fair wind behind. Needless to say of course, none of them were!!

[Peckris 2]

9 hours ago, absence of uniformity said:

Im going to study the 1875 and 1875 H there must be an identifiable die characteristic unique to the H coins. Lets see.

On a relatively high grade penny like that, the H would show strongly. What you've got there is a ghostly anomaly, and I'd agree - no H 

[Ukstu]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

On a relatively high grade penny like that, the H would show strongly. What you've got there is a ghostly anomaly, and I'd agree - no H 

First thing i clocked as soon as i saw it. It's in high relief all over. 

It's what OP says it is in my opinion. Nice find. 

Stu.

[absence of uniformity]

Currently it's a split decision.

An equal amount of people say they see a H and the same amount say no H.

Respectively the opinion of the members here I value to be of higher credence however I will remain on the fence until I have completed my search for an identifiable die characteristic unique to Heaton coins.

If nothing else it's a great learning experience for me and a good reason to learn to look closely at details, going forward I will need those skills.

I have spent a good few hours and found some differences between F82 and F85 on some coins, each time I find a consistant different detail I then find a coin in between the two or find an example which proves the theory incorrect. Part of my issue when trying to corroborate apparent differences is the inconsistant grade and or photos of different coins I'm looking at. If I had 20 uncirculated F82s and 20 F85s with photos taken under the same conditions would probably be more decisive.

It's a challenge out of interest rather than simply going against opinion.

Up until now I have only been studying the reverse, I will check the obverse to see if I can find any consistant differences between Heaton and London die pairings for 8+J

This coin was not purchased as F85 and it was purchased cheap, already the purchase has provided me with hours of interest and learning about grade and scrutinizing details. 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

8 hours ago, Coinery said:

FWIW I don’t think it’s an H, just an anomaly of toning and surface metal.

The big issue is, if you’re going to call that an H, you then have to have an explanation for the Triangular shape that’s hovering between the digits?

Thats the arrow highlighting the location of the H 

 

1 hour ago, Ukstu said:

First thing i clocked as soon as i saw it. It's in high relief all over. 

It's what OP says it is in my opinion. Nice find. 

Stu.

Thats's what caught my eye when I purchased it, then I noticed what I thought was a H. You are not alone its currently 50/50 split decision.

Thanks

[Coinery]

6 hours ago, absence of uniformity said:

Thats the arrow highlighting the location of the H

No, you need to expand the image in my post again. The point I was making is there are all kinds of bobbles and bumps in the fields of these coins.

Also, I too can see an H, but feel it’s just a collection of anomalies that create the illusion of one. This probably represents the view of quite a percentage of those who said they could see one, which likely puts the percentile well into the NO camp. 😉

As you allude to, there are some very high-calibre and serious penny collectors on this forum (I’m not one of them), so you’ll  be in very good company with your intensity and approach to all this.

Enjoyable post, thank you!