How much will the coin market be affected by COVID-19?

[pokal02]

DNW was about average overall today I'd say, some items (including the groat I particularly wanted but didn't get) going for double estimate or more but a lot of the less desirable items going below estimate (picked up a James I shilling with a book value of £900 for £130 net - yes there are some scratches on obverse, but not bad enough for that sort of discount).    

Edited April 8, 2020 by pokal02
update

[BritishHammeredCoins]

Market is booming 

 

DNW hitting some crazy prices.

[oldcopper]

9 hours ago, BritishHammeredCoins said:

Market is booming 

 

DNW hitting some crazy prices.

Spink had a name for this in their Insider mag the other day - the attitude of: blow this - I'm going to treat myself!

I can understand that.

[1949threepence]

2 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Spink had a name for this in their Insider mag the other day - the attitude of: blow this - I'm going to treat myself!

I can understand that.

Me too. Very much so.

[youliveyoulean]

no one has mentioned the Spink auction a few weeks ago. huge demand and some of the strongest prices i've seen for a lot of the coins recently. i think i read somewhere a record number of online bidders (for obvious reasons).

[BritishHammeredCoins]

On 4/10/2020 at 11:36 PM, youliveyoulean said:

no one has mentioned the Spink auction a few weeks ago. huge demand and some of the strongest prices i've seen for a lot of the coins recently. i think i read somewhere a record number of online bidders (for obvious reasons).

Yeah even the contemporary forgeries did really well.

[MJ75]

I spoke to Semra at London Coins a few days ago when I had to ask how you join LCGS as there is no link on the website! 

 

I chose not to join in the end but I did ask her if their next auction will go ahead. She said "yes it will". 

[Sword]

It is anyone's guess whether they will have live bidding though. 

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Sword said:

It is anyone's guess whether they will have live bidding though. 

Obviously we have no real idea at this stage whether (and indeed to what extent) the lockdown will have been eased by early June. I suspect probably not sufficiently to allow crowded public rooms. 

So unless they do it all via prior e mail bids and post, they'll have to arrange live bidding, probably via a third party.   

[secret santa]

They probably won't be able to host pre-auction viewing either which, combined with the more recent deterioration in their photography, will contribute to a huge non-event.

[oldcopper]

15 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Obviously we have no real idea at this stage whether (and indeed to what extent) the lockdown will have been eased by early June. I suspect probably not sufficiently to allow crowded public rooms. 

So unless they do it all via prior e mail bids and post, they'll have to arrange live bidding, probably via a third party.   

I'm not a fan of commission bidding, as it's funny how many times I used to get the coin at my maximum (I'm not naming any specific auction house of course, let's just say one of the worst offenders must have thought I was a gullible pommy).

[Rob]

13 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

I'm not a fan of commission bidding, as it's funny how many times I used to get the coin at my maximum (I'm not naming any specific auction house of course, let's just say one of the worst offenders must have thought I was a gullible pommy).

Perish the thought. I don't bid any more either. Pity really, as they do have the odd thing that you wondered where it was for years.

[1949threepence]

32 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

I'm not a fan of commission bidding, as it's funny how many times I used to get the coin at my maximum (I'm not naming any specific auction house of course, let's just say one of the worst offenders must have thought I was a gullible pommy).

Yes, I think I got shafted like that on one occasion. Unfortunately, can't prove anything.

With the live streaming auctions, if there's one I've bid on/or will live bid. I video it on my phone so if there's any argument, I have back up evidence.

[mrbadexample]

I also no longer use them after suspiciously winning lots at my maximum bid only.  In fact, I don't even bother to look at what's on offer, less I get tempted.

Are auction houses required to keep records of all bids made?

Edited April 20, 2020 by mrbadexample

[VickySilver]

I think they might find that results will be improved by going on-line. They have made me cringe at times, and have had similar experiences although I've had a few winners.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, mrbadexample said:

I also no longer use them after suspiciously winning lots at my maximum bid only.  In fact, I don't even bother to look at what's on offer, less I get tempted.

Are auction houses required to keep records of all bids made?

I don't know. I'd imagine so, in case of disputes. Whether a legal requirement or not, it would certainly be best practice to do so.

The last 2 successful bids I made, with DNW, were absolutely above board. I'd advance bid £1000 on the F25, and you can tell the bid is still yours, when bidding is still under your limit, as the auctioneer will say things like "bid is still with me" "my bidder" or "still against you on line". The as soon as your limit is passed he will say "now on the internet/on line". 

The bids passed £1000 so I had to make an on line bid to finally secure the coin.

With the F46, I'd advance bid £3000, and this limit was never reached before the bidding stopped.

I'd say it's far more likely that any shenanigans are going to be at auctions held offline.     

[MJ75]

4 hours ago, oldcopper said:

I'm not a fan of commission bidding, as it's funny how many times I used to get the coin at my maximum (I'm not naming any specific auction house of course, let's just say one of the worst offenders must have thought I was a gullible pommy).

 

The one time I used commission bidding with London Coins all but one of my highest bids won. I've adopted a different approach ever since. 

Happy to post the auction house name as I still have my email with bids and invoice which would confirm! 

[Paddy]

I used to bid regularly at Lawrences of Crewkerne with complete confidence. They recorded the bidding in the room, even before everything went online, and so any queries could easily be handled by playing back the recording.

There were other auctions here in the South West that I quickly gave up leaving bids with as they had a reputation for "taking bids off the wall".

 

[Diaconis]

The one time I used commission bidding with London Coins all but one of my highest bids won. I've adopted a different approach ever since. 

Happy to post the auction house name as I still have my email with bids and invoice which would confirm! 

You're not alone, there's an older thread on here where other members voiced similar experiences.

[MJ75]

42 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

You're not alone, there's an older thread on here where other members voiced similar experiences.

l'd be very interested in reading that thread. Does anyone have a link please? 

[Sword]

4 hours ago, Paddy said:

I used to bid regularly at Lawrences of Crewkerne with complete confidence. They recorded the bidding in the room, even before everything went online, and so any queries could easily be handled by playing back the recording.

There were other auctions here in the South West that I quickly gave up leaving bids with as they had a reputation for "taking bids off the wall".

I once left an absentee bid on a lot and ended up as underbidder. (My bid was well over the low estimate). The very same lot was offered for sale in the next auction again (obviously it wasn't actually sold first time round) and I was again under bidder after leaving another absentee bid. Believe it or not, it appeared again in the auction after that. There is no doubt in my mind that the auction house has allowed the vendor to set a reserve higher than the low estimate and was bidding on the vendor's behalf against me. 

[Diaconis]

I'll be interested to see how Rowley Butters' (JP Morgan) Reddite Crown does at Heritage Auctions. It hammered at £65k in September last year and is now up for sale again, currently around the $30k mark. It went for £25k in 2008. Shame it has had such a hard life, lovely coin otherwise, and rarer than the Petition Crown.

[copper123]

I think this question should be what sort of hit will the housing market have from the virus .

If you look in the daily mail you will find both camps up and down both argueing

[1949threepence]

28 minutes ago, copper123 said:

I think this question should be what sort of hit will the housing market have from the virus .

If you look in the daily mail you will find both camps up and down both argueing

Whatever happens to prices in the immediate future, it won't affect the overall shortage of accommodation and the fact that there will always be too many buyers chasing too few properties, and too many renters chasing too few private houses for rental. That's a physical reality which isn't going to change, irrespective of Covid.

The 3 bed semi in Chelmsford, which my parents bought in 1974 for about £10k, recently changed hands for £475k. Unreal. Inflation would have taken it to £105k.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by 1949threepence

[VickySilver]

But when people lose the wherewithall to purchase things like coins, and especially residential space prices will come down because demand at unsustainable levels will fall away = if money is not there in peoples' hands to buy, there will be a slump in demand of whatever good there may be at higher price points.