Will we ever become a cashless society?

[1949threepence]

On a recent trip to Kew Gardens, I was appalled to find that the cafeteria there, would not accept cash, so I had to use my contactless card. Also, bus companies up and down the country won't accept cash either. Moreover, there are young people now who claim they never carry cash, and just use cards. Although this must be difficult with smaller items, as a number of places still do not hold contactless technology. You'd look mighty strange getting your debit card out to pay for a bag of crisps. Also, how do you contribute to office collections with a debit or credit card?

All that said, cash does remain very popular and billions of transactions are still carried out each year using cash. I believe it remains the most popular monetary transaction medium. Especially abroad, where in many countries it is still actively preferred to cards.

I am filled with horror at the thought of cash no longer being available, as this negates any chance of anonymity when buying an article, or paying someone for any kind of service, such as tradesmen who frequently offer a discount for cash in hand.

I can't see us going cashless for some time yet, if ever. Although I am sure there are those who would like to see this for their own ends.

What do others think about this question? 

       

[Rob]

Gradual adoption of contactless technology with a commensurate reduction in the number of currency coins issued. The next few years are going to see very low mintage issues with the exception of the commemorative tat because the banks are unlikely to request new supplies of small change. The widespread availability of machines which convert small change into something more manageable ensures that piggy banks will continue to be emptied. The only thing buoying mintage figures is the removal from circulation of cupro-nickel and bronze and their replacement with clad steel. 

[mrbadexample]

50 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

On a recent trip to Kew Gardens, I was appalled to find that the cafeteria there, would not accept cash, so I had to use my contactless card.

Regardless of what cards may have been in my pocket, I would have told them that I had no other means of payment. Frankly, that's ridiculous.

[mrbadexample]

Just now, DrLarry said:

When I take coins into school...

Funny. You struck me as being older. 

[mrbadexample]

I'm from Yorkshire. I'd be the one picking them up.

[1949threepence]

16 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

seems a strange thing for Kew of all places to adopt considering that the main users of the space are towards the older end of the age spectrum and less likely perhaps than those younger maybe willing to go cashless.  Perhaps they just made so much money off that 50p they can now pick and choose .....

But I think we need to come up with a more enticing method to encourage children and young people collecting.  When I take coins into school the kids love them and they are a fantastic platform on which to teach history and get the kids thinking creatively.  I am not sure just collecting for the sake of collecting is going to spin their wheel.  I have some ideas but it would take more than my little coin games to turn the disinterest around.  But as with most things there will be lots of moans and groans from the sidelines but very little action until it's too late and the bottom will fall out of "numisland".   

It was damned irritating.

[Peckris]

Has anyone published a catalogue of Bitcoin yet, including all known varieties?

[Mr T]

For sure sooner or later - in Australia even ATMs fees have been scrapped (the reason rumoured to be that about 10 years ago cash withdrawals hit their peak).

Still, cash has its place and I would be surprised if it disappeared altogether (private exchange of value isn't illegal).

[zookeeperz]

Of course we will become a cashless society everything being pushed on us is for a more contactless way of doing business. For security reasons alone it makes perfect sense. There will be a multitude of scan and pay for everything you can think of. But probably not anytime soon but within  the next 100 years and history tells us that these slow burners at the start rapidly gain momentum first we had vinyl records (still have them and the sound is far better than auto tuned junk of today)then a short 4 track 8 track car sound players that really never caught on . then the more streamlined cassette players that brought forth the mini hifi systems that just exploded on to the market only to be superceded CD and DVD and at the time is well touted they would never catch on. Now you don't even need DVD with digital downloading on most things. Which eventually will be the norm . Logistics are different but if you think about it we go from vinyl to digital downloads in a 30 year time frame yet for 30 years there was only 1 format. We are now at the same stage as the the first vinyl records (with cash) granted a tad more complex but nothing that cannot be done it's just about acceptance and how fast the wheels of commerce are willing to move to get it done. It will be touchy feely at first as we are already seeing with the introduction of plastic notes for a longer circulation duration meaning less need to be made in subsequent years but they day will come when momentum will be more robust and before we know it we will be a cashless society.

[Peckris]

4 hours ago, zookeeperz said:

Logistics are different but if you think about it we go from vinyl to digital downloads in a 30 year time frame yet for 30 years there was only 1 format.

Not a good analogy. The 50s saw a change from shellac 78s to vinyl. The 60s saw the first audio cassettes appear. The 70s saw 8-track, and digital mastering. The 80s saw CDs. The 90s saw the first MP3s. This century has seen the download of digital music gradually change to streaming. Yet collectors of vinyl (especially), but even audio cassettes are thriving. It probably won't be too long before CD collectors start mushrooming. 

Cash goes much further back than the ability to own music recordings, so if there is a transition to a cashless society it will be a great sea change as cash has existed for millennia.

[zookeeperz]

29 minutes ago, Peckris said:

Not a good analogy. The 50s saw a change from shellac 78s to vinyl. The 60s saw the first audio cassettes appear. The 70s saw 8-track, and digital mastering. The 80s saw CDs. The 90s saw the first MP3s. This century has seen the download of digital music gradually change to streaming. Yet collectors of vinyl (especially), but even audio cassettes are thriving. It probably won't be too long before CD collectors start mushrooming. 

Cash goes much further back than the ability to own music recordings, so if there is a transition to a cashless society it will be a great sea change as cash has existed for millennia.

I hardly would call it booming in relation to the rest of the mainstream industry. My point being we have adapted to the changes even if at first we were either unsure or dead against them. The goal posts will be moved throughout the decades and eventually as sad as it is . It is inevitable there will be a cashless society but only when technology catches up with everything that is cash operated which wouldn't take a lot of changing tbh just how quickly is anyone's guess but I think reasonable to assume within the next 100 years  

[1949threepence]

20 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

I hardly would call it booming in relation to the rest of the mainstream industry. My point being we have adapted to the changes even if at first we were either unsure or dead against them. The goal posts will be moved throughout the decades and eventually as sad as it is . It is inevitable there will be a cashless society but only when technology catches up with everything that is cash operated which wouldn't take a lot of changing tbh just how quickly is anyone's guess but I think reasonable to assume within the next 100 years  

A cashless society would certainly favour HMRC and others of a controlling nature who are desperate to keep tabs on us. It would mean we could never disappear for a few days or weeks living in a caravan somewhere, with a wad of cash to keep us going. Well we could do that, but we would leave a digital fingerprint with every item we bought and hence would be traceable.

But I do wonder if international agreement would need to be reached before any country dares to take the ultimate plunge and go completely cashless.   

 

[zookeeperz]

by strange coincidence I received an email from which magazine which is further food for thought.  

Richard -

Bank branches are closing at an alarming rate.

Our research found that 60 bank branches close down every month, leaving many communities struggling to access financial services. And although online banking and mobile apps are available, recent IT meltdowns at TSB and Visa have shown such systems aren't infallible.

Access to cash is even more at risk as free-to-use cashpoints are coming under threat, which means many communities could be stripped of their access to cash entirely.

We want to know: do you find it difficult to access cash in your local area?

 

 

 

"The noose tightens"!!!  

[mrbadexample]

2 hours ago, zookeeperz said:

Access to cash is even more at risk as free-to-use cashpoints are coming under threat...

It's our own fault. If we refused to use the ones that charge then they'd not bother making any more. I've never paid to get my own money out, and nor will I.

[Peckris]

On 16 June 2018 at 9:51 PM, zookeeperz said:

We want to know: do you find it difficult to access cash in your local area?

 

The local NatWest joined all the others and closed down. On a happier note, they kept their ATM and a small portion of the building to service it, so as ATMs do pretty much everything you want from a bank, I'm happy enough.

[1949threepence]

On 6/17/2018 at 11:21 PM, Peckris said:

The local NatWest joined all the others and closed down. On a happier note, they kept their ATM and a small portion of the building to service it, so as ATMs do pretty much everything you want from a bank, I'm happy enough.

Great that the ATM was kept, but this whole call centre culture which has developed over the last 20 odd years, and emanating from local closures (not just of banks) has definitely led to a significant drop in customer service standards. 

1) The caller is immediately confronted with an array of annoying options, the intentions of which are sometimes unclear or overlap.

2/ Often it's difficult to actually get through to an agent, as you are patently discouraged from going any further via references to their website/experiencing high call volumes etc.

3/ When you do get through it often seems to be to the wrong person, and /or they have difficulty understanding you and you them, as English is not their first language. 

4/ If you complain you either get a completely nonsensical reply - literally !!! Or they just defend the indefensible. Apologies just don't happen these days.    

 

   

[Paddy]

The replies usually start either "We value your custom..." or "We take customer service very seriously..." before going onto explain why they no longer value your custom or provide any customer service!

 

[1949threepence]

13 minutes ago, Paddy said:

The replies usually start either "We value your custom..." or "We take customer service very seriously..." before going onto explain why they no longer value your custom or provide any customer service!

 

Or the other favourite now imprinted indelibly in my memory "calls may be recorded for training or monitoring purposes"

"may" be. Either they are or they aren't, Why not just say calls are recorded. Then it should be manifestly obvious that if needs be, your call be subsequently listened to unless they've messed up the recording.

Just give straight. easily comprehensible logical facts, and no ambiguous BS.

   

 

[Paddy]

... ah but by saying "may" they give themselves a let out cause. If it is in their interests to find a recording of the call, they will do. If it is in YOUR interest, then that call was conveniently not recorded. Murphy's law applies.

 

[Peckris]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Or the other favourite now imprinted indelibly in my memory "calls may be recorded for training or monitoring purposes"

"may" be. Either they are or they aren't, Why not just say calls are recorded. Then it should be manifestly obvious that if needs be, your call be subsequently listened to unless they've messed up the recording.   

My calls to HMRC or DWP invariably begin with me saying "This call is being recorded for quality and monitoring purposes". 

The calls that really infuriate me are when someone calls ME and then says "I'm going to take you through some security questions before proceeding with the main reason for the call." I always reply by saying "Hold on a moment - YOU called ME. You prove you are who who you say you are or I'm not answering any of your so-called security questions."

[zookeeperz]

2 minutes ago, Peckris said:

My calls to HMRC or DWP invariably begin with me saying "This call is being recorded for quality and monitoring purposes". 

The calls that really infuriate me are when someone calls ME and then says "I'm going to take you through some security questions before proceeding with the main reason for the call." I always reply by saying "Hold on a moment - YOU called ME. You prove you are who who you say you are or I'm not answering any of your so-called security questions."

Now they ring you and some automated Stephen Hawkins starts asking you how you dealing with the car accident you supposedly had some months ago. Pretty tough to do unless I jacked a car and drove off with it lol  and even worse they speak to you using your first name only and make it sound as if they are a friend just to get their foot in the door. I let them speak long enough to shout **** off

[Peckris]

Someone once posted this in a forum, it's worth posting here too! 

Me. "Hello"
Random Bloke (RB) "Good morning sir how are you today?"
Me "Itchy"
RB ".....Ok.....do you know your Windows computer has been sending out random messages for the last two weeks?"
Me "Really?"
RB "Yes sir, do you have a few minutes and I'll help you fix it?"
Me "Thats rather splendid of you"
RB "Will you turn your computer on, I'll give you a few minutes"
Me "Its on"
RB "Its on now?"
Me "Yes it starts instantly"
RB "Can you see your desktop with all the icons?"
ME " I don't have any icons on my desktop, they make me feel itchy"
RB ".....OK.....On the bottom left of your keyboard there a ctrl key, can you see it?"
Me "Yes"
RB "Can you tell me what key is to the right of it?"
Me " alt"
RB "And to the right of that?"
Me "cmd"
RB "No, no , no, sir at the bottom left of the keyboard is a ctrl key, what is to the right of it?"
Me "alt"

RB "And beside it?"

Me "fn and alt"
RB "You should be able to see a key with the Windows symbol on it"
Me "Nope"
RB "Its next to the ctrl Key"
Me "Nope"
RB "There's no Windows key?"
Me "Nope, its a Mac and they don't have a Windows key"

RB "Its a Mac?"

Me "Yep"
RB ".....Ok.....can you go onto Google for me?"
Me "Nope"
RB "You just need to go onto the internet with Safari and go to Google"
Me "Can't"
RB "Can I ask why?"
Me "Yes"
RB ".........You can't go on Google?"
Me "Nope"
RB "Why not?"
Me "I'm not connected to the internet, it makes me feel itchy"

[mrbadexample]

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

... ah but by saying "may" they give themselves a let out cause. If it is in their interests to find a recording of the call, they will do. If it is in YOUR interest, then that call was conveniently not recorded. Murphy's law applies.

 

Spot on Paddy.

[1949threepence]

8 hours ago, Peckris said:

My calls to HMRC or DWP invariably begin with me saying "This call is being recorded for quality and monitoring purposes". 

The calls that really infuriate me are when someone calls ME and then says "I'm going to take you through some security questions before proceeding with the main reason for the call." I always reply by saying "Hold on a moment - YOU called ME. You prove you are who who you say you are or I'm not answering any of your so-called security questions."

Indeed, they are not only infuriating, but also totally incomprehensible. Surely, surely, any organisational management with even half a brain, must know that confronting the public with such inane questions on an outgoing call, is going to wind them up, and accordingly arrange any outbound campaign to exclude any questions which might give rise to having to ask questions which require data protection laws to come into effect (GDPR now)   

Or write to them.

Or arrange for all customers to have a reverse means of identification - eg: they have a password which they ask the caller of the organisation concerned to say before the call is proceeded with. Security is two way, not one.

 

 

[PWA 1967]

Your last bit Mike about the company having a password is the one Mike ,I owned call centres and had sixty thousand business customers that we continued to look after the intitial sale and build a relationship with.

Unfortunately we had that big a share of the market that competitors phoned up saying they were us as an easy introduction and assumptive.

We therefore had passwords to ensure both parties were familiar with each other before the call was continued ....So yes secutity works both ways.

However in the early days when we had know customers being polite ,courteous and listening to what the persons business wanted worked quite well 

Not all call centres tell lies and try to have people over and most reputable ones have a phone system that will record everything (even if the call is unanswered ) ,although the costs involved are high especially if you have hundreds of lines.The regulators should monitor the smaller groups of telesales teams just as much who in some cases have know other interest than making a quick few quid and are happy to lie to get it.

All good fun and the choice is our own as to weather we listen or not.

Pete.