1909 DOT Penny Variants

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I'm not sure if this has been posted, I couldn't find anything...

I just found my 3rd 1909 DOT Penny, however the dot is in a different location.... Slightly lower in the same basic area....

Has anyone made note of this before????

Thanks,

Gary

 

 

Images as follows:

1909 DOT Specimen 1

 

 

1909 DOT Specimen 2

 

 

 

1909 DOT Specimen 3  Image 1

 

 

 

1909 DOT Specimen 3  Image 2

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[terrysoldpennies]

Hi .all the dot 1909s I have seen are of the speciman 1 type . I notice that its a different colour, which makes my wonder if like me on one of my pennies, the dot turns out to be a spot of weld on the coin. it would by a strange coincidence for a dot to be so close to the known dot position on the same date of penny.  my one is below .   Terry

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I think the difference in color is a trick of the lighting..

Under direct examination it is the same color as the coin.

There is a spot of verdigris on the dot.

I tried to scrape the dot off with my fingernail to no avail.

It also a appears as a perfect dot. I would not expect a drop from welding to be so symmetrical...

[Nordle11]

The dot flaws I've seen on this year are also all in the same place as the first example, as is my own. The specimens 1 + 2 of your photos look like the same flaw to me, with a circle encompassing it and also the same damage to the teeth above it albeit more worn on the second specimen.

[secret santa]

Gary, if I were offered either of your specimens 2 or 3 I don't I'd accept them as dot varieties from those pictures. Maybe they look different in hand ?

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Thankd for your comments Richard..

Specimen 2 is well worn but clearer on direct examination. I'm a terrible photographer...

I'm sure of 1 & 2... 3 is what got me curious. . Nothing strikes me as wrong with the coin, just that the dot is not where it "belongs"...  which is why I was asking if there were any other known variants as #3...

[Prax]

Gary, I have handled only 2 1909 dot specimens and they were both similar to your Specimen 1. However I must also highlight that I have come across many 1897 dot specimens. In most cases the dots are small specs almost between the O and N. However I have noticed that on some specimens the flaw is quite large (as the dot grows in size the positioning also moves closer to the top of O)

 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I agree with the 1897's..  I believe I had posted them before. .

I have a lightish dot, a heavy dot, and a 3rd with a die crack extending from/through the dot..

Similarly, I have the usual 1946 dot as well as one that has a comet shaped die crack...

 

[RLC35]

1 hour ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

I think the difference in color is a trick of the lighting..

Under direct examination it is the same color as the coin.

There is a spot of verdigris on the dot.

I tried to scrape the dot off with my fingernail to no avail.

It also a appears as a perfect dot. I would not expect a drop from welding to be so symmetrical...

 

Terry and BCC, Here is one that I found that is just like Terry's. A little worn, but still there! 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

The examples I have seen are all positioned as my specimens 1&2...

I had never seen one positioned as my specimen 3.....

 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

The entire reverse normal orientation and rotated for visibility..

[Gary D]

To me, who also has only seen a couple of No1 the third one just doesn't look right somehow. The edge of the dot looks to sharp, as if is a foreign body that has been pressed into the surface.

[Zo Arms]

On 4/26/2016 at 6:02 PM, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

I'm not sure if this has been posted, I couldn't find anything...

I just found my 3rd 1909 DOT Penny, however the dot is in a different location.... Slightly lower in the same basic area....

Has anyone made note of this before????

Thanks,

Gary

 

 

Images as follows:

1909 DOT Specimen 1

 

 

1909 DOT Specimen 2

 

 

 

1909 DOT Specimen 3  Image 1

 

 

 

1909 DOT Specimen 3  Image 2

 

 

 

 

Thought that this 1909 dot was close to specimen 3 but not so sure, now that I can see them both together.

Specimen 4.........?

[Peckris 2]

Unfortunately, those photographs are covered by a horrendous PhotoFuckit logo.

[Zo Arms]

On my last post, the first three were Gary's. The last is mine. Strange. I can see them all clearly on my phone.

Here are my three offerings. Interestingly, on the first photo, there is a dot in the accepted position, next to the E.

That's if the photos appear.

Bob.

[Peckris 2]

Sorry, my reply was ambiguous. I meant to say that the photos were there, but the important part was covered over with the orrible logo.

[Rob]

On 4/26/2016 at 6:30 PM, terrysoldpennies said:

Hi .all the dot 1909s I have seen are of the speciman 1 type . I notice that its a different colour, which makes my wonder if like me on one of my pennies, the dot turns out to be a spot of weld on the coin. it would by a strange coincidence for a dot to be so close to the known dot position on the same date of penny.  my one is below .   Terry

I don't know whether it is just a function of my screen, but this one looks to be the top of the right hand upright of an N because I can see a trace of a line in parts and a smaller raised spot corresponding to the bottom tip of the upright at a slightly lower and right position to that of the actual N. As the distance from top to bottom spot is the same length as the upright of the N, is this just coincidental?

[PWA 1967]

I thought that originally Rob ,however on this one that is a high grade even under a microscope there was no trace of the upright.

Edited May 26, 2020 by PWA 1967

[Rob]

Yes, but things can get filled/degrade through use, so that in itself is not conclusive.

[PWA 1967]

1 minute ago, Rob said:

Yes, but things can get filled/degrade through use, so that in itself is not conclusive.

I agree although i dont suppose any theory will be conclusive.It is almost perfectly round aswell like the 1897 that has different opinions although in a different area .I have looked at others closely as i did initially think it was part of the N but not seen anything that would confirm it on another.

[Rob]

A different era, but the same principle applies. This selection of Ns on a Soho pattern shows considerable variation in the state of the remains of a double cut N on what could not have been more than a few hundred strikes (also includes a recut N).