PWA 1967

Yes its a good point.......A downturn is a good buying opportunity 🙂 The coin cabinet auction had quite a lot of which only about half sold and although i dont know anything about most of the coins the pennies seemed to have reasonable estimates but not many bids.

Means tired or similar really but often used as in mithered or pestered. So if the wife keeps asking me to do something i will say "alright stop pow faggin ". Just a daft Lancashire thing 🙂

Click on edit post and take your email address off now as you dont want to be pow fagged . I have sent the pictures as big as i can so on two seperate mails. Pete.

If you send me a PM with your email address i am happy to send you large pictures before it was slabbed ,if it helps.This may at least help to confirm if it was the same coin as sorry i dont have a clue about them. Pete.

I am more than happy for you to do your own research and should you decide to do so ,you may well find a few more that you were not aware of.

My evidence is down to spending hours looking and asking dealers questions 🙂i dont doubt they are scarce or as a collector i would not of paid good money for one. On the 1st of March 2016 someone who had done there homework started a thread on this forum ,he then went on to sell it at LCA. 1909 2 + E penny now there are 16 ..........Was the title of the thread and i can remember at the time phoning people up and asking dealers about them ,which i have continued to do for the last three years.Some people have one and are happy to just put in there collection and dont come on here to tell everyone and have not all been sold at auction. Yes some are still scarce including the F169 , although the number of collectors prepared to pay for one may be less than we think. Numerous others including 1863 open , 1862 Half penny date , 1860 N/Z etc were all considered rare but have now all reached numbers were IMO the prices have started to drop. I have a collection and dont want them to go down but as more are found they are unlikely to go up.....Unless new collectors want them.

I think its all the same as more turn up and all relative to how many collectors will pay for one. A F169 was in LCA in Dec for £700.....It didnt sell but problem free ,this i do know as i bought it for less a couple of weeks after and now in a cgs slab. One sold a couple of weeks ago in a job lot at DNW for £550 ,again i opened the bidding at £20 and then let others get involved as it wasnt worth anywhere near £550 to me One sold on Tuesday in the Baldwin sale for £420. Dealers are obviously selling coins all the time and by speaking to them you get a better feel for the market and prices Its all the same if more keep turning up ( which they will ) the price will come down or become stagnant if people ask to much As far as the numbers there are definately more than 20 and its at this point IMO most collectors will of either bought one ,will look for one cheap on ebay etc or dont want one. The biggest problem IMO is the lack of new collectors and this if it happens is what may bring the prices back up.

Yes i think it went unsold last time ,its the same collector / collection and just re-submitted ,i suppose its the benefit of splitting the auction into three parts.If one does not sell first time you can put it in again.

https://bsjauctions.auctionmobility.com/lots/view/1-1XDHDY/united-kingdom Its only SOME of the low grade varieties which have become a lot more common Blake 🙂 You only need to look at some such as these in high grade.

Yes it was all part of the same collection Paul Hayward Edward V11 that was part 1 and the other one in part 2 yesterday 🙂

Cheered me up Terry I will send you a mail when it does and you can help me sell them ,i might get a couple of £ each

Yes your right Richard ,although it is like most of the others in a similar grade.I notice the St.James seller had bought a few from both workman / crocker sales including a 1909 Dot which sold in the previous auction a couple of months ago.The 1909 Dot being the same as the others mentioned unless VF or better........The last one i had i did give away to a forum member https://bsjauctions.auctionmobility.com/lots/view/1-1XDHE2/united-kingdom Having a quick look he had bought both of them from the workman sale ,this is the one that sold yesterday.

https://bsjauctions.auctionmobility.com/lots/view/1-1XDHDU/united-kingdom Seemed as good as anywhere to post although maybe a bit negative These two F164a were sold at both the workman and crocker sales for a total of £1300.The low grade varieties like the F164a ,Gouby X and 1903 open are due mainly to the internet being found all the time , maybe when varieties are selling for good money others start looking who may not even want one.There are more now than people who want them ,so IMO can only go down unless they are VF or better................ they will be giving them away soon . I was the underbidder otherwise they may of sold for £45 and although ones not bad , they are not worth anywhere near the money they were only a couple of years ago when i bought one for £250. Pete.

Wasnt sure if these would show but are the coin.....In a phone thing and then taken out 🙂 ......................................................................... Didnt realise they had been posted in the members thread aswell as these are off another forum with the same post

Thanks Peck i didnt know that 🙂 Although a good sign of a coin being retoned quickly after being messed about with is the fields will be a lot darker (black ) and patches will be that similar kind of (pinkish ) colour on bronze.The more a coin has been rubbed / polished the harder it is for the oil to stick to the surface and this is more often on the highest points. IMO though from the photo its had some kind of lubricant on and been re toned..........Unless its the photo and in hand does not look anything like the picture at all ....................................... Just having a look on the LCA website for the last twenty minutes at cleaned penny (pennies ) there are numerous examples that are the pinkish colour which they describe as cleaned and re toned or starting to re tone. These have been cleaned as if LCA were not sure they would maybe of not mentioned anything and if the seller did not agree maybe would not of been put in the auction.

IMO its had a rub with some kind of olive oil / lubricant. All the high points are much lighter and the colour not naturally dark , with the pinkish colour on the OBV that remains meaning it may of been done to re tone it.

Thats the one that Loose bought and then sold , i mention it as he found that in a mixed Lot at a major auction house 🙂

The other thing to remember is people often spend a couple of hours looking and find nothing of any value ,its much easier when the sale price has brought it to peoples attention

Some people are looking at them all day Jon and you cant bid with as much confidence only seeing one side in a picture or missing out on something that is hidden. Hat off to the buyers especially if they took the time to go and have a good look and are happy , its the same as looking at something and knowing its crap on the side that is hidden and not going to high.They may well of bought others we cant see in the picture 🙂 There was obviously something or some in the 1860 Lot selling for over £3K with commision.

Scarce ones at DNW not attibuted today in mixed lots 🙂 I thought i may of been in with a chance especially when one lot i was interested in opened at £20 All good fun. Pete.

Brilliant and thank you so much for your reply ,i should of again looked in the book and not spent as much time on the 1874. Quick easy exp[anation ...Hat off and dont get to sunburnt today 😎

Maybe you can help me please Terry are Paddys two coins the same reverse or different ? I am confusing myself now and probably wrong as usual but would just like to be sure 🙂

Trying to learn as i have looked at a few of this reverse ( 1874 ) on the two pictures Paddy put up the second one is as i thought Ja. The first picture of Paddys though i am still not sure and maybe i am getting it wrong and still think its J The single plume on Ja is straight / thinner and falls downwards but on Paddys first picture it is slightly curved ? I had also looked at both helmets and the hair and thought the first one was J ,only because the first picture the helmet looks off set rather than more upright and straight.

I dont think you are getting confused Cliff and think your right to say they are two different reverse with the second one Ja. Although that may mean we are both wrong