Coinery

Due to their size/thickness they don't do very well below ground, so they do not tend to hold up well as detecting finds. Whereas in the river they seem to do really well as do many other base metal coins including tin. I understand that it was for a period of time a "farthing" to cross the river (Thames) and therefore there are quite a few to be found around this area for that reason. Whether that is fact or fiction I am not sure, but a high number of those out there are Thames finds Thanks, Colin, makes good sense! Would you say Everson is the best work out there for these coin's? Other than Peck are there any other good reads on the subject you are aware of? I took a look at Rob's farthings earlier, I'll revisit them again tomorrow, a couple of nice bits and, as you said, provenance a plenty! I was momentarily excited to find an ex Everson coin there, but it's not quite pretty enough for me, though I guess you've just got to have one in there!

Sounds like a good start indeed! I've often wondered why certain coin types are common river finds, is there a reason why?

I've just got hold of a copy of the Everson book, can anyone suggest any extra reading to supplement this book and series? Apart from sniping the 'bay, where else would you look for these coins? I realise that for the most part they are too low in value to get single-lot recognition at the major auctions, so maybe coin fairs? Any thoughts?

Baldwin77 thanks to Google Thanks! Can you trust the local dealer - sure he's not putting you off on his own account? First thought that entered MY mind! God, we're all SO suspicious!

Lot 2619 for the farthing gentlemen! http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&sid=679&lot=2619 Now you'd want that, wouldn't you! What a beautiful coin!

Would I be right in thinking there's no 'extra' fee for using sixbid, just the auction house buyers' premium? Also, does anyone here have plans to be on the floor at StJames?

Many thanks!

I can't seem to find the StJames catalogue for Oct 1st, have you got a link?

That photography absolutely cracked me up! The rarer arch-topped 'A' too!

C'mon, Richard, you're not losing faith in the TPGC's are you? What they mean is: 'well struck-up SOMEWHERE, but I don't know enough to tell you which bit!'

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851407246;jsessionid=95EE3002326CC123EC61EED1247566A3?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D230851407246%26_rdc%3D1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230853992857?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D230853992857%26_rdc%3D1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851424836?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D230851424836%26_rdc%3D1 God, they're slabbing some shite! If I saw that H8 coin unslabbed on eBay I'd run a mile! Thank goodness it's 'authenticated'!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851407246;jsessionid=95EE3002326CC123EC61EED1247566A3?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D230851407246%26_rdc%3D1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230853992857?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D230853992857%26_rdc%3D1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851424836?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D230851424836%26_rdc%3D1

Very little Elizabeth hammered, though a nice crown however. The two 6d's (2705 and 2706) I just can't fathom the pricing, 1568 being just about the most common of dates, and it's hardly drop-dead (other than it's estimate). The other is also nothing special.

I've just picked up on your revision! Hah, now there's a case of David meeting Goliath (with Dave being me in this instance)! I'm going to have to get my Dundee friend to deliver a bottle to your house if you're back for Christmas!

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was resolved and he was not out of pocket? Lets ask the Horses Mouth................Paul, what happened with that piece of shite you bought? Just like my old mate, Kev Thomson! Must be something about being a Dundonian!

Cheers, Pies, thanks for that! Do you work IN hospital then?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm you've listed the coin you wanna buy lol I'm fancying an experiment! Can I shake those deposits off with one of those cheap machines? No Bugger!

Hmmmmmmmmmmm you've listed the coin you wanna buy lol I'm fancying an experiment! Can I shake those deposits off with one of those cheap machines?

TBH i'd love to think this is genuine. The seller sells many Sovs, but a rarity such as this on ebay is somewhat strange to me. An EF graded coin in Spinks is around 8500 quid. Why put this coin on ebay if its so rare? I can't vouch for authenticity, but ebay often exceeds major auctions at final hammer, AND only have a 10% sellers fee! I think all the serious collectors/dealers have a pretty good handle on eBay nowadays, despite everything that's said! Look at us lot, for instance, when something special comes along (not saying this is) we're all drooling and speculating, CALCULATING, twitching, itching...there are quite a few armchair bidders methinks! Most of the quality hammered is almost untouchable on eBay! C'mon, Dave, you use one of those electro cleaners, any good for this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170910669150?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Would one of those electro-things (a quick post, sorry) get the deposits off of coins like these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170910669150?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was resolved and he was not out of pocket?

Poor Liz! I did wonder upon whom Mrs Shrek was based! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300768960535?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Cheers, Dave, I'll had a dig around in there and see how Chris has played it!

I don't know. But it occurs to me, what's the point of designing a system of classification and then publishing it for everyone to read about if not the hope that people will find it of assistance? The assistance element would be if you had an unclear 7/6/5 date, for example, you could hopefully find a 6/5 die to match and confirm, or quite simply being able to rule out an overmark because you have found the die match in the 'solo' marks, meaning you can give it the full BCW title! And surely, part of finding something useful will be that you will want to adopt it yourself, no? This is certainly the case with collectors of the shillings of Charles I, in that Michael Sharp's system is much more useful than Spink's numeric one (such as S.2793 which doesn't really differentiate within a type group) or Grant Francis' (1b2 etc ..) And Michael's introduction to his paper seems fairly clear that he designed his system for reference and in the hope that it could develop if any further types or varieties were found. The fact that we call a coin Sharp C2/6 effectively gives MS credit. Similarly it seems to me that by using BCW (or Peck or Spink or Freeman etc) notation we are acknowledging their work. But can I publish material stating "BCW Shilling A-b (Die G1)" with the G1 being my own extension to their cataloguing? As to a new system, while it's your area and you have the expertise, not I, my personal feeling would be that if BCW classifications are adequate, why re-invent the wheel? I'd love to use BCW, it's a superb system, just uncertain whether I can or not? My thoughts on a new system were about avoiding red tape (if there is any) That's what Roy Osborne tried to do (again with the Charles I series) but to be honest he went into so much detail that the result is just unwieldy and inelegant. While it can be helpful if you can't access or send a photograph, but want someone to be able to recognise an individual coin by description (down to the style of harp and beard shape), for the most part simplicity equals functionality. IMHO . Thanks, Richard! I have marked above in your text, just because it would be simpler to follow (I often think it can look rude, you know it's not)! I guess my key point here is, can you use the numbering systems of Freeman, Spink, BCW, Sharp, etc. (and add to them using brackets) provided academic acknowledgement is given? Whilst I believe it's courtesy to contact the authors of these works, notwithstanding their endorsement would be an important part of the process, and not to mention I'd feel it akin to meeting Keira Knightley should either BCorW as much as give a passing interest in what I am doing, I wonder if it's legally neccesary? Essentially, what is the correct process/etiquete/presentation when taking a BCW Shilling A-2 and sub-dividing it by the 10 different dies that potentially make it up? Do I have to get consent (other than as a courtesy)? Can I numerically add to their system without consent (if clearly and academically noting the division)?

Any advice would really be appreciated from those on, who've been on, or are thinking of being on this journey! I notice in Spink that they use BCW's bust ID's to classify their own Spink numbers, with only a 'for further reading see BCW....etc.' acknowledgment at the end of the Elizabeth silver section. I also notice that Dave G. has used Peck & Freeman following permission to use their numbering system. So, I initially wanted to record the individual dies of the Elizabeth varieties as laid out by BCW (primarily so that I and others could better identify a variety [overdate etc.] should a particular feature be weak/missing), and have been approaching this by taking a BCW number and adding to it my own extra die-identifying references (as seen in the images above). However, before I go much further (I'm still awaiting responses from BCW themselves) and end up with a lot of back-tracking and time-consuming changes to my filing, can I actually do this, provided I appropriately reference BCW (as you might in a dissertation)? Or, is the correct 'approach' to this quite simply to create your own unique referencing system, where you then might say, for example, "Shilling SBGa1 (BCW A-2) with 14 known dies SBGa1:GA, SBGa1:GB, etc" So, entirely new referencing system, or blatant use of someone elses (with permission of course [do you actually need permission if it's appropriately referenced?])? What is the numismatically recognised standard for what I am attempting to do?