Coinery

Has anyone ever heard of or seen a fake Mary Groat? Could I please have your considered opinions please! The seller says he found this Metal Detecting, and has been a dealer for 30 years with his own shop, and apparently has great experience in this field, and has also shown this to a 'top dealer'. He's invited me to take it to Spinks or DNW to authenticate. It has all the complex Mary buckles, but is lighter than it should be at 1.64g. It is your typical hammered thin, making me rationalize it is neither a cast nor electrotype, though I'm open to all thoughts good or bad. I personally am uncomfortable with it, what do you think of the general quality of the design?

Well there we are, that's unanimous then! Thanks Peck! Oh, no! I went back and re-checked a coin I won from him...I hadn't even got round to taking it out of the flip. It was even photographed IN the flip, so looked better in the image than what I now have in hand. Yes, brasso'd most definitely! I've no excuses for being so blasé about it, only that I can collect up to 20+ coins a time from my postal address, this one onviously slipped below the radar! So, apologies if my initial statement was misleading! Last purchase for me!

I've sold him BIN coins before, but haven't seen them since...least not that I've recognised them if they've been recycled?

I've bought 2 of these LT's in the past on eBay auction, and was very pleased with the purchase price on both occasions. If this helps, I have sold one before on BIN & BO and was also very pleased with the outcome! It really all hinges on the quality of the images you can get onto eBay! Get links in the description to photobucket if you have to, just get the viewer an easy way to see a quality image! Don't do that 'I can send pictures' thing, that should be in Paulus's Room 101! So, not auction IMO, a 30-day BIN or BIN & BO IMHO. Everyone has very different views on this, to each his/her own! I see were you are coming from. I had also considered an auction with a highish reserve, then if under but close take the highest bidder. I do have interest in this coin but I've no idea what it's worth? Perhaps any dealer types could pm me their thoughts. I personally always run a mile when I see reserve not met on listings. I'd go bin & BO for this one! There aren't generally that many going through eBay, so you will get some interest for certain.

Peck my old friend, you are the devil's own!

4 options All feedback feedback from buyers feedback from sellers feedback left for others. I would line up his buyers (and tom) Get a nice 10 lb cod and give their chops a nice slapping. before or after pin-boning?

COOL coins! You probably need to read around the forum a bit more!

What I meant by clarifying 'only known' die-pairing, is that I didn't want to be presumptuous about it because, whilst BCW present only one, it doesn't mean that there IS only one! In a very short time I've found a few pairings not recorded in their book. I'm thinking it's likely that there is just the one pairing, and even more likely that your's isn't anything other than the known type. On reflection, it could've been a little side-tracking to mention the third harp. In some instances the punches used to make up the die, can precede say, for example, the end of a privy mark, and this can be useful on occasions for more closely dating an undated coin. The punch of the third harp appears on 1601 and 1602 coins, the trefoil star AND the martlet.

I've bought 2 of these LT's in the past on eBay auction, and was very pleased with the purchase price on both occasions. If this helps, I have sold one before on BIN & BO and was also very pleased with the outcome! It really all hinges on the quality of the images you can get onto eBay! Get links in the description to photobucket if you have to, just get the viewer an easy way to see a quality image! Don't do that 'I can send pictures' thing, that should be in Paulus's Room 101! So, not auction IMO, a 30-day BIN or BIN & BO IMHO. Everyone has very different views on this, to each his/her own!

15th May 1602 - 20th May 1603 But with the 3rd harp, again assuming you've got the only known die-pairing, you're looking at a 1602 shilling!

The legend DEVM only appears on Elizabeth's hammered English crowns and halfcrowns, and also on the Irish coins. It also appears on the milled coinage. I believe this is a third coinage Irish shilling of Elizabeth, which had a shield on the obverse. The mintmarks for this coinage were the trefoil, star, and martlet. So, if there's a martlet on it the obverse is BCW Irish Shilling MR-1, which is happily only paired with one known reverse MR-a (which would've had a crowned harp [3] on it). Altogether a BCW Irish Shilling MR-1:a This is of course presuming you're happy with the dimensions of it as a shilling. There were marlet sixpences too. I should probably add, it does look shilling dimensions, and the martlet is at the top of the 'shield' side, just after RE: Also, the crowned harp on the the reverse would be orientated with the flat edge at the top!

My strategy has always been in viewing the 'time ending soonest' category, maybe it's time to join you boys on the newly listed BINs! Oh, and shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

There are a lot of BIN coins on eBay, but there are also a lot of 'BIN' coins on the internet generally. I guess with eBay, at least, you can filter out all the BIN coins with a single click, which is a pretty good facility I'd say. I can't remember ever buying a BIN coin on eBay, but I've bought a few 'BIN' coins from internet dealers. I guess I'm also caught by that 'trying to get a bargain' strategy on the 'bay, but wouldn't insult a dealer's list with the same tactics if I liked the coin.

Someone has already reported this coin as a fake, and the seller has updated the listing accordingly http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COPY-OF-CHARLES-I-HAMMERED-SHILLING-m-m-tun-ref-SPINK-2794-/251167319588?pt=UK_Coins_BritishHammered_RL&hash=item3a7abd2624 In his favour, he has changed the Charles XII description to 'copy!' However NOT in his favour is he didn't spot an obviously suspicious coin! I'm half interested in his PM 1 Liz shilling, thinking it something worth photographing for my die-study, but have noticed a suspicious uniformity of 'tone' across all his coins for sale (even Victoria). Any thoughts from anyone? Are his coins tinkered with, fake, badly photographed, or genuine? Just had a sickening thought...I hope I haven't put my foot in it! It's so easy to forget there's a strong link between eBay and MOST people on the forum!

Not a clue unless it's a deformed bell. That was my first guess, but very odd to say the least! I thought is could be a modern copy, but it's not known by Everson?

Any ideas what's going on with the Privy Mark? 180999770343

Many thanks to Roger Shuttlewood, Colin Cooke, and Rob Pearce, the previous caring custodians of a rather pretty hammered copper (IMHO). A pint of scrumpy, a lump of cheese, some gibbles (spring onions), a copy of Everson, and the above coin in a lighthouse flip ( ), a perfect day! It's a terrible shame you have to be so secretive about such pleasures when out!

Same kind of shock factor as the Elizabeth slabbed material! I was going to say shocking but I think...amazing! It means we can sell all our fine-VF stock, and go for a MAJOR upgrade! Thank-you very much, I say!

Thanks, Dave, that's neat! How do you know which catalogue to download, it's all abbreviated in the library view?

The above was meant to read: 'However, the LATEST known pairing...' The edit facility was unavailable this morning!

Go on then, PM me too! This may not be the popular vote, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say get yourself a Spink's catalogue. At your son's level it doesn't have to be the 2012, you can get a two or three year old copy for a couple of quid on ebay. I think it would be your best bet for now! And possibly 'check your change' available on this website's homepage? Good luck with it all, and welcome aboard.

Well, it wouldn't be decent other than to stir-up a bit of a debate, particularly as this blows quite a few of the numismatic 'knowns' out of the water! I can only quote from BCW, knowing of no better reference so, as a basis for discussion, we have: Obverse TN-1 (Tun over Hand) which is obviously a known pairing with a 1592 reverse. Also we have: Obverse HA-1, and this gives us our earliest known hand over crescent die. However, the earliest known pairing for HA-1 is with a 1590 reverse. So, numismatically, absolutely nothing works for a triple-mark, but it's an interesting IM window for such possibilities, given the lack of pyx details spanning the 3 privy marks. I wonder if you have some interesting Challis info. to add fire? Whilst I cannot personally pick out the 3 marks in the image, I'd be really interested to hear your ideas behind its occurrence. The crescent sixpence (whilst not the commonest) has sufficient enough numbers surviving that it may be possible to find a die-match. This is what the entire Elizabeth die project is about for me...having a series of library dies available to all for clarification, where details or multiple marks aren't as clear as we would like. It really interests me! I'll have a little dig around the die-thing on this one, because I truly believe that die-databases are the way forward in all areas...not to dig out new varieties, but quite simply to assist in situations such as these.

If I can do something for you Rob, it would be my pleasure! I'll email you later!

It's taking hold, then, this coin collecting thing? A great move to get a book on the subject, so much to learn!