Coinery

An excellent question! I personally have no clue, but will be watching this thread in the hope it's a long one! I have a half ( no pun intended) interest in these myself! I think Peter's right, in that the single, most important, feature, must surely be that the halves and quarters must clearly identify the host coin! I would think this area is begging for a catalogue! Then watch the prices rocket! £££££

CGS valued it at £6 and even that's strong!

It has a scratch on the REV Peter, accentuated by the plate size picture (i'll post shortly) its 1687/6 and i think G/A in MAG, although not described as such, so G/A in MAG? Looks like G/A to me, Dave, good spot!

I did see a Edward VII gold two pounds that had been worn as a jewellery item, it's edges were very much erroded and rounded. It did have obvious mount-marks however. For the edge of this coin to be rounded, it couldn't have been protected by a ring mount. You absolutely can't write it off, it could have spent some time in a sandy/beach environment, anything's possible, the weight's in your favour. I think, as peckris said, that it needs an in-hand appraisal unfortunately. What we need is a good die-study of all those coins with known fakes haunting them. Where 'modern' milled is concerned, we are back to the provenance thing again. If I was ever to buy a Gothic Crown again, it would have to come with some substantial paperwork and/or catalogue history that predates these arses who are bombarding us with all this tat!

I'd rate that between VF and EF to be honest What, not EF details? Interestingly, two different R punches on the reverse!

In the first post I described the edge as milled which I thought was the pattern on the perimeter of the faces.Following your comments I now realise that it is the actual face of the edge of the coin - this appears fairly smooth apart from what looks like general knocks and knicks. The thickness is 1.1mm in the centre and 1mm at the edge. I believe it's starting to look like something that has been in the family for many years is not what it seems?!! Regards How many years, if you don't mind me asking? I only ask because the Chinese fakes are comparatively recent, but there was a great spate of Middle East fakes of gold coins in the 1970s. If it goes back a long way, it is less likely (though far from impossible) to be a fake. However it could be a counterfeit which would make it of historic interest, and of course the gold value is not to be ignored. Does anyone have a date for the earliest of the known Chinese fakes? Also, Peck, just out of interest, do you happen to know the earliest of the 70's material?

Overlaying images with transparency is easy enough, most sensible image processing software packages will be able to do that. However, finding a package to negate the distortion might be more challenging. Can you post a picture and explain what you want doing? Then we might be able to have a bash with whatever packages we have available... Yes, I'm sorry, Rob, I too meant to reply but... A quick post of the 'good' die and the 'stretched' one would clarify what you're after, and what the possibilities are. With transparency overlays, the difficult part is seeing the differences without repeatedly moving the images on and off each other, which you might need the software it was created on to do?????? Once we can see your needs, it might?? be possible to set the whole thing up with a bit of software, and then send you the exported images separately in their transparent forms...I think that might??? work???? The software I use, took me about 2 days of playing with to understand the basic functions, thereafter there's an infinite amount of time you could spend! However, I only ever learn that which is needed for my own purpose...same with the camera, a very capable piece of kit that does only 1/2 % of what it's capable of, but it's only the 1/2% I'm interested in!

It means that it is a coin that would have been graded around the EF mark, had it not been rejected for whatever reason (cleaning, environmental damage, surface hairlines etc). Ok, it has a scratch on the REV, but personally with the scratch i'd say GVF. Maybe better to give a correct grade than DETAILS.....It's a 1687/6 and i think G/A in MAG Shilling As a feather in the cap of CNG...I let them have about 20 coins around 2 year's ago...I'm still reeling from the 1in 4 they returned unslabbed! Made me cautious from an altogether angle I can tell you. With CNG you have to think 'will they slab this,' or will I have to spread the failed slabbing cost across those that were, which is what I had to do! Quite a wake-up!

I think VF details, as we are frequently seeing with NGC is perhaps a new way of saying a hammered coin is mostly bloody good, but with a lot of flat spots, etc which, in reality, is a difficult coin to grade, as strike weakness in hammered is such a common thing! It's definitely a crowd-pleasing statement, from the paying slabber's perspective, which is why they're doing it I'm sure! BUT EF details...???? That's a p*ss-take too far IMO! NGC are losing credibility...if they ever had it! What is it, hammered, early-milled? Please don't tell me it's more recent than hammered! Shocking!

In the first post I described the edge as milled which I thought was the pattern on the perimeter of the faces.Following your comments I now realise that it is the actual face of the edge of the coin - this appears fairly smooth apart from what looks like general knocks and knicks. The thickness is 1.1mm in the centre and 1mm at the edge. I believe it's starting to look like something that has been in the family for many years is not what it seems?!! Regards The smooth edge is not a good omen, you should be looking at some nice crisp diagonal ridges, the edge is the bit that most counterfeiters struggle with. My money's on it being a bad one. With an edge like the one you have, and the suspicions that already accompany the coin, I'd be looking to see if the surface tests + for gold and, if it did, and not a lot would like this, but I'd give that poor edge a light scrape to see if beauty is just skin deep! For me, it's always about calculated risks when it comes to pursuing metal integrity in these types of instances!

Gosh, this whole forum has me as suspicious as hell at the moment. The weight is good for the grade, however, the V in GeorgiVs jumped out at me like a sore thumb, I don't ever recall seeing an infilled letter of that fashion on anything else before? I confess to knowing very little about early-milled gold, but any chance of a look at the edge? Does the milling appear 'right,' complete with no seams etc (having said that, if it's cast, which it just looks SO cast to me, it wouldn't have any seams, maybe a filed/flattened area for removal of a spur)? Here goes old suspicion again...counterfeiters manage to achieve good gold-weight with thicker, or larger diameter coins, your's should be a 25/26mm coin. You'll have to forgive me, it's just my genuine-coin-faith is at an all-time low at the minute.

Surely, even if you wanted to sell in one bulk lot, you'd need to produce a list of what's there?

Got to be good news, then! That's very kind, John, thank-you! I'll just give the pictures a go for now, as I've got a feeling I'm going to be majorly groated out, very soon! Keep busy, and speak soon!

I've just been surfin' the site, and thought it would be good to revive this post for the forthcoming season's greetings, and christmas banter, whilst I remember to do so! It appears to be the first ever Pre-decimal Christmas thread, from what I can make out! It's interesting to find Peter there, gourmet as usual! So, anyway, Mer.... Maybe not yet!

Thanks, John, any chance you could email me the full-res pictures when you get a moment? Hope you're well!

Cheers, Dave! I'll send him a friendly note once the dust has settled/resolved with the 'eBay case' re this copy!

I 100% agree with your thoughts, copper123! There is a small Mary groat die-study on its way! I'm hoping to find a couple others of the copy to aid in recognition of good and bad alike! So, please, absolutely ANY good quality pictures of M groats, please PM me, I'd like to catalogue ALL the dies...it can't be that hard! That doesn't include your avatar, ski!

The 'patina,' Peck!

I personally think you've got nothing to lose, I would. However, the verd will stand out even more so on a lighter-toned coin! It should oxidise pretty quickly in a shed!

It would be something of a disappointment to make it to 110 year's old, and be given a polished penny worth, well, not a penny! What ever happened to a fine bottle of single-malt?

I'm sure's there's many on here, and eBay (BIN) who would give you a fair price. What have you got?

Something not quite right about it for me! Is this something we're going to get a decent image of?

Totally different dies to the other fake, Paulus!

I only know that Lithuanian Customs are returning any letters that they suspect to be carrying dutiable goods if they are not accompanied by a form CN22 (or CN23 if worth over £270) Talking of the CN23 has anyone ever seen one? I've asked in 3 different post offices now for a copy, only to be met with the face of disbelief! I've even turned over a 22 to prove they exist!

Yes and no. Research is always good fun, but have you considered the ramifications of listing all the potential double cut legend varieties in Spink or any other reference volume. Any, and potentially every letter on every coin could have been repunched at some point and in any combination with some recut several times. I suspect the only feasible option when carrying such a volume would be to attend the drive-thru coin fair. It's SO easy to get carried away with all these things, I know! And what's wrong with Spink's cataloging a 5/5 with top bit poking out, and 5/5 with back curve poking out beyond the other back curve, and, and...?