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None of what you just said makes sense now as I split the post you responded to into a new topic, here: Now I understand how that feature works!

I split this to a new topic (sorry Paddy, thought it would take your reply with it).

I am not sure there are any experts specifically on Victorian penny forgeries, but there are lots of Penny experts here, who can spot a forgery a mile off! Are you looking at contemporary forgeries (I am not aware there are many of those), or the ubiquitous modern fakes? I think a new thread would be best.

I missed it when listed as a BIN which was a pity, Good luck 😀👍.

can I just ask if there are any experts on Victorian penny forgeries or do I have to start a new thread?

I don't profess to follow or understand your rational, but hey, each to his own. I've always found that a low start attracts more interest and anything will eventually achieve it's current worth. If I get less than I paid, so be it and if someone gets a bargain, lucky them. I had it as BIN for £200 but no one did.

I meant coins generally not this one type, obviously ones like this i would buy or offer to buy as a BIN but not bid on eBay for them when worth a lot more than 99p.

To me thats what will keep these few and far between and the premium up. @RChris I have had another look tonight trying to find a country the RM has struck coins of a similar weigt and size without any luck.

If it was my coin I would set a reserve. If a dealer was prepared to pay more than what the coin made 10 years ago clearly its worth more today.

How do you intend to look for one without buying hundreds and weighing them?

The little spot at 7 o'clock is a stain. Still no further along, will decide to leave it as it is for now.

It has a tiny A+M on the bottom rev exergue which means its a joint effort between Allan and Moore

Have been watching the series "Tudors" these days and am almost at the end of it. Feels like a perfect introductory watch to the two movies "Elizabeth" with Cate Blanchett! Quite some tumultuous years! How does everyone like this series? Still need to buy a good book on the various monarchs! Cheers all!

Ones that are not attributed i have a better chance of getting cheaper and worth spending hours looking for, unless someone tells the seller what they have. Ones sold correctly attributed and starting at 99p but worth a lot more, i prefer to leave.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance on the finer points of collecting. You don't like the one I'm offering? I'm not familiar with the advantage or difference it makes between attributed and unattributed but would appreciate learning.

Although i dont bid on attributed coins on eBay, i would pay £300 for a thick/heavy flan penny today, if anyone has one they want to sell.

I have been giving my unwanted pennies to a charity shop (animal not human they are too greedy) and when I go in to see how they fared they are always sold out, apparently its youngsters going in to buy them, so maybe its an upward trend, hopefully

I know I've said it before, but the ratio of rare to common specimens has narrowed steadily since decimalisation, but the value guides don't really reflect this. The rarities are still rare but the common dates have become scarcer over such a long time.

What I mean is - if it's the same smaller size as other toy coins, then it wouldn't have been the Mint at the Great Exh. but probably Moore (presumably Heatons didn't strike toy coins?)

Whilst the interest in collecting from change may fade away, the interest in rarities, especially nice ones, is likely to be subsumed into the general collector desire for quality rarities seen across all spheres. Otherwise, how do you explain the prices paid for hammered coins, none of which circulated in living memory. Their desirability stems from the history and all coins are part of that same history. Not all denominations have a large following, but one day their turn will come when relative rarities are fully appreciated. Take halfpennies. Much rarer than pennies in top grade because alongside farthings, they were the mainstay of the working class cash economy. That means a high grade example is always a good long term bet given they weren't normally set aside and collected per se. It is a common thread throughout history. Look at Roman sestertii as an example. These were the circulating base coinage of the Roman era, and again, not something the rich and famous would set aside. However, the Bolsena Hoard found in the late 19th century in northern Italy provides ample evidence that even 1700 years ago someone thought them collectable. As the hoard contained a large number of top grade sestertii spanning a few centuries, it beggars belief that they were collected from circulation. The hoard only makes sense as a collection. i.e. we are just the latest in a long history of people who collect from interest, rather than as an investment. As I wrote in my testimony to Cope part 2. We 'met' on ebay. He, as my regular nemesis, eventually asking if I was a copper collector. Silly and obvious really. When we had both bid over twice book on a lustrous 1718 halfpenny that came back in the sale as a 65RB, it was clear that we both appreciated the relative quality of the coin, and how infrequently they turn up. High grade modern pennies will also fall into that same collectable category once enough have been melted and are no longer readily available, and this might happen sooner than you think. In the past 20 years, I estimate that I have consigned somewhere near a ton of bronze to be melted of all denominations. Why? Because nobody wanted them, so you melt to free up cash. The odd rare piece will have gone through undetected, but the vast majority will have been worth scrap value. I am not alone in having done this. This will increase the relative abundance of the rarities over time. Every dog has its day, and as far as I can see, always will do so on a recurring basis.

I must admit I am disturbed with the reverse one irish symbol one Scottish and yet two English Did someone hate the Welsh?

oh matron ! Its the same size as the Moore gothic crowns

I was under the impression in recent years interest had spiked, not from my own experience but various things I have seen/read. I only buy unattributed coins so loss in the future i doubt will amount to much for me, but same for the collection will probably never amount to much waiting for coins that are never going to appear.

Same here, checking my mother's purse for pennies when she came home from work every night during the 1960's. It was good while it lasted but I'm now at the age when it's time to move them on. So those I've purchased since have not been a great investment but the fun was in the collecting. It's a shame today's youth are mostly into their phones.

Sadly, I think you're absolutely right. I imagine most penny collectors became interested during their school years in the sixties and are now in their twilight years (me included) and it seems that the interest in copper and bronze will fade away with them. I shall probably sell my collection next year and am resigned to losing money on many if not most of the coins.