More Pennies

[Bruce]

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Bruce said:

 

Finally have time to take pictures of the 1853 Penny Intermediate colon received before.  Pity that there's edge bruise at obverse, however it's still a lovely penny to appreciate.

 

Bruce - indeed - that's a very, very nice example of the rare Bramah 15 intermediate colon. Neat capture.

[alfnail]

For anyone who is interested in Victorian Young Head penny sub-varieties.

Yesterday I managed to acquire an upgraded example for my 1857OT Gouby Style B (Narrow Date).

I knew this sub-variety was very difficult to locate, so I decided to update my ‘5 year’ statistics (all ebay YH listings). Some may recall I shared these on the forum about 6 months ago when there was a discussion about different numeral 7 fonts, and the rarity of the ‘long 7’ type of font in particular.

A close up of Gouby Style B is pictured below, together with the revised stats from my ‘5 year’ study period. On this date style the numerals 5 and 7 are very close, and both exhibit repairs which can be seen under the microscope, but not so clear on the poor reference example on Gouby’s website.

The stats show that I found only 15 examples of this particular date style, making it far rarer than the ‘long 7’ Gouby Style E. For comparison, during the same period I found 76 x 1856OT’s, 59 x 1853PT’s and 50 x 1844DFF’s.

Now I need to just move on 20 years and find a few more narrow date pennies!!

 

[1949threepence]

6 hours ago, alfnail said:

For anyone who is interested in Victorian Young Head penny sub-varieties.

Yesterday I managed to acquire an upgraded example for my 1857OT Gouby Style B (Narrow Date).

I knew this sub-variety was very difficult to locate, so I decided to update my ‘5 year’ statistics (all ebay YH listings). Some may recall I shared these on the forum about 6 months ago when there was a discussion about different numeral 7 fonts, and the rarity of the ‘long 7’ type of font in particular.

A close up of Gouby Style B is pictured below, together with the revised stats from my ‘5 year’ study period. On this date style the numerals 5 and 7 are very close, and both exhibit repairs which can be seen under the microscope, but not so clear on the poor reference example on Gouby’s website.

The stats show that I found only 15 examples of this particular date style, making it far rarer than the ‘long 7’ Gouby Style E. For comparison, during the same period I found 76 x 1856OT’s, 59 x 1853PT’s and 50 x 1844DFF’s.

Now I need to just move on 20 years and find a few more narrow date pennies!!

 

But presumably Ian, not one of your 76 OT 1856 finds was in high grade? 

[oldcopper]

19 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

But presumably Ian, not one of your 76 OT 1856 finds was in high grade? 

There have been a few 56 OT's in high grade over the last 2 decades - Pywell-Phillips SCA 2018 (ex somewhere else but I've forgotten where), Baldwins 47 (Gregory II) - later sold London Coins, fantastic coin, nearly full lustre, Mark Rasmussen list 15 ( Old British Collection) - ditto almost BU, Dave Craddock also had a nice one in his tray several years ago.

[Bruce]

1 hour ago, oldcopper said:

There have been a few 56 OT's in high grade over the last 2 decades - Pywell-Phillips SCA 2018 (ex somewhere else but I've forgotten where), Baldwins 47 (Gregory II) - later sold London Coins, fantastic coin, nearly full lustre, Mark Rasmussen list 15 ( Old British Collection) - ditto almost BU, Dave Craddock also had a nice one in his tray several years ago.

I also see 2 56 in auctions in past few months, i only remember the one at Warwick seems grade EF.  Is it implied the 56 is not as rare as we think before?

[alfnail]

22 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

But presumably Ian, not one of your 76 OT 1856 finds was in high grade? 

Hi Mike,

A quick scan through those 76 images indicates to me that about half were rubbish / very low grade, but there were about 10 in VF or even a tad better, and there were 2 that looked in very collectable better grade. I attach those images fyi 

[1949threepence]

4 hours ago, oldcopper said:

There have been a few 56 OT's in high grade over the last 2 decades - Pywell-Phillips SCA 2018 (ex somewhere else but I've forgotten where), Baldwins 47 (Gregory II) - later sold London Coins, fantastic coin, nearly full lustre, Mark Rasmussen list 15 ( Old British Collection) - ditto almost BU, Dave Craddock also had a nice one in his tray several years ago.

Yes, the superb LCA specimen you mention, went in December 2009 for £950 hammer. I do remember the Dave Craddock one, but obviously there was no photo and it had gone by the time I enquired.   

2 hours ago, Bruce said:

I also see 2 56 in auctions in past few months, i only remember the one at Warwick seems grade EF.  Is it implied the 56 is not as rare as we think before?

The PT isn't that difficult to get in high grade. It's the OT that's seemingly difficult. 

56 minutes ago, alfnail said:

Hi Mike,

A quick scan through those 76 images indicates to me that about half were rubbish / very low grade, but there were about 10 in VF or even a tad better, and there were 2 that looked in very collectable better grade. I attach those images fyi 

Yes, they would be very collectable, Ian.

[PWA 1967]

A couple just back from NGC both really nice in hand , sellers pictures who i bought them off.

1891 MS65 RED  1894 MS65 RB.

[blakeyboy]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

A couple just back from NGC both really nice in hand , sellers pictures who i bought them off.

1891 MS65 RED  1894 MS65 RB.

 

 

You mean "really nice in plastic"....

[PWA 1967]

A nice 1797 Penny 10 Leaves NGC MS64  ,better lustre than i was able to capture in the picture  ,without the normal contact marks.

Edited May 4, 2023 by PWA 1967

[copper123]

16 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

A nice 1797 Penny 10 Leaves NGC MS64  ,better lustre than i was able to capture in the picture  ,without the normal contact marks.

nice ship and waves sez it all really

[Coinery]

On 5/4/2023 at 3:32 AM, PWA 1967 said:

A nice 1797 Penny 10 Leaves NGC MS64  ,better lustre than i was able to capture in the picture  ,without the normal contact marks.

Everyone should have a nice example of one of these. Such lovely coins!

[secret santa]

Some rare pennies in the Spink auction:

The Numismatic Collector's Series Featuring The George Blaine Collection Part IV

e - Auction

Ends: 17 May 2023 at 10:30 AM EDT
Spink USA | 458 Lots  

VIEW ON SPINK LIVE

 

 

[alfnail]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:20 AM, alfnail said:

Again unimpressed with Noonans penny descriptions:-

Coins and Historical Medals (4 & 5 April 2023): Lot 499 | Noonans Mayfair

 

They don't get any better!

British and World Coins (7 & 8 June 2023): Lot 393 | Noonans Mayfair

 

[Old Money]

Yes they do!

[secret santa]

Not a trace !

[Old Money]

12 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Not a trace !

Should book with SpecSavers!

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6029704-008/65/

 

[1949threepence]

51 minutes ago, Old Money said:

Should book with SpecSavers!

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6029704-008/65/

 

Although I reckon the NGC example above is a genuine 4/3. If you blow the pic up, you can see the usual details.

The one offered by Noonans is taking the proverbial. 

[Old Money]

9 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Although I reckon the NGC example above is a genuine 4/3. If you blow the pic up, you can see the usual details.

The one offered by Noonans is taking the proverbial. 

Agreed, no evidence of top of 3 going through top of 4. In my experience if you tilt a genuine 4/3 you will see the 3 quite clearly.

[1949threepence]

7 minutes ago, Old Money said:

Agreed, no evidence of top of 3 going through top of 4. In my experience if you tilt a genuine 4/3 you will see the 3 quite clearly.

I know that identification of the 4/3 can be a bit tricky, especially for the novice - and is certainly difficult for the naked eye, even with the sharpest eyesight - but for an experienced company like Noonans, specialising in English coins, that mistake is inexplicable. Also, they seem to slightly resent mistakes being pointed out to them.

[PWA 1967]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I know that identification of the 4/3 can be a bit tricky, especially for the novice - and is certainly difficult for the naked eye, even with the sharpest eyesight - but for an experienced company like Noonans, specialising in English coins, that mistake is inexplicable. Also, they seem to slightly resent mistakes being pointed out to them.

Yes i agree ,i would not buy that as an 1854/3 looking at the picture.

All it does is waste everyones time describing them wrong as the majority just get returned. The vendor not paid or the auctioneer left with a coin they then have to try and sell someone else.

[alfnail]

8 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I know that identification of the 4/3 can be a bit tricky, especially for the novice - and is certainly difficult for the naked eye, even with the sharpest eyesight - but for an experienced company like Noonans, specialising in English coins, that mistake is inexplicable. Also, they seem to slightly resent mistakes being pointed out to them.

Indeed Mike, they could employ at least a dozen people on this forum who would describe pennies better than they do. At least their pictures are good quality, so you can easily see all their mistakes 😜

[1949threepence]

13 minutes ago, alfnail said:

Indeed Mike, they could employ at least a dozen people on this forum who would describe pennies better than they do. At least their pictures are good quality, so you can easily see all their mistakes 😜

I literally thought exactly the same thing, Ian.

Maybe we should offer our skills. Could take it in turns   

[alfnail]

5% of hammer seems fair 🤑🤑🤑