More Pennies

[alfnail]

Interesting looking at the DNW auction on 1st December how little an 1863 Open 3 is now expected to fetch (Lot 298). I'm sure I have sold one no better than that for around £500, probably  shortly after they were first discovered. 

Couple of nice Victorian Coppers on there, including an unusual 1846 with a dot! 

[secret santa]

Crucial estimate missing (£80-$100) !!!

[alfnail]

Assumed people would look if interested Richard, £ not $!

[secret santa]

1 hour ago, alfnail said:

Assumed people would look if interested Richard, £ not $!

Touché

[alfnail]

Put a few more pennies on ebay last night, including the 1875 Cannon Ball discussed on this thread (pages 171/2), and a low grade 1875Hh with repaired legend (Gouby Page 70).

Low grades, but maybe of interest to one or two members to fill a difficult gap:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?item=403295926834&hash=item5de64f7a32%3Ag%3AiBwAAOSwg1phkQDv&_ssn=alfnail&_sop=10

 

[alfnail]

Can anyone point me at the auction result for an 1858 Large Rose Large Date penny which I think was sold at auction earlier this year for around £1000....maybe Baldwins? Thanks in advance

[PWA 1967]

This one Ian ?

https://bsjauctions.auctionmobility.com/lots/view/1-3SYMYF/british-coins

 

[alfnail]

Thanks Pete, that's the one, well remembered!

Hope all good with you.

Ian

[mrbadexample]

Rough as a bear's arse but...

[mrbadexample]

[1949threepence]

31 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

Are you thinking slender three, Jon?

[terrysoldpennies]

48 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

Its not a slender 3 type Mike  but it is an open 3 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

18 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Are you thinking slender three, Jon?

Open 3

[mrbadexample]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Are you thinking slender three, Jon?

As above Mike, £1.99 worth of open 3. 

[1949threepence]

11 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

As above Mike, £1.99 worth of open 3. 

Not bad for £1.99.

 

[Bruce]

Bought an interesting 1848/7 Penny, would like to learn whether the FID. on reverse, instead of FID:, is common.

[secret santa]

Nice one, Bruce - I haven't seen that before but Ian F may know more as he's studied copper pennies for years.

[Paddy]

This penny turned up in amongst a random group of GB and foreign coins. It looks very much like a proof example to me - am I right? Are there any indicators, other than just the quality of the strike, that can confirm or deny this? There was a Halfpenny in the same group, which may also be proof, so they may both have come from a broken set. (Sadly none of the other coins of the set were present!)

 

[alfnail]

Looking at the pictures provided by Bruce, and noting that there are also 48/47 varieties with 7 in middle of bottom circle of numeral 8, and also at back of bottom circle of numeral 8, I suspect that Bruce’s coin is probably the third type (Bramah 10b) with the numeral 7 towards the front of the numeral 8.

This can be confirmed if Bruce could check that his over-date matches my first picture, and then check EI of DEI to see if the small protrusions at the top of both letters are present on his coin as per my second picture.

If the above obverse ‘features’ match Bruce’s coin then let’s turn to the reverse and check to see if the B of BRITANNIAR and the E of DEF match my 3^rd and 4^th pictures.

If all these ‘features’ are identical then I think that we have a match for both the obverse and reverse dies.

If this is the case, and as I have now reached the 500Kb limit for this post,  I can post more pictures of my full obverse /reverse which show that the top colon dot after FID did exist on the original reverse die. Whilst I think I can see remnants of the top colon dot on Bruce’s piece, it must have somehow become less obvious / missing at a later date e.g., through wear or die fill. The other 3 sets of colon dots on my own coin also seem to be identically positioned to those on Bruce’s example i.e. by way of further confirmation that both these coins have been struck from the same die pairing.

[Peckris 2]

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

This penny turned up in amongst a random group of GB and foreign coins. It looks very much like a proof example to me - am I right? Are there any indicators, other than just the quality of the strike, that can confirm or deny this? There was a Halfpenny in the same group, which may also be proof, so they may both have come from a broken set. (Sadly none of the other coins of the set were present!)

 

The sharpness of the rim edge is often a good indicator. Also, Geo VI proofs usually have mirrored fields especially FDC examples like yours would be if a proof. However, it could just as easily be an early strike and thus have crisp details.

[Bruce]

2 hours ago, alfnail said:

Looking at the pictures provided by Bruce, and noting that there are also 48/47 varieties with 7 in middle of bottom circle of numeral 8, and also at back of bottom circle of numeral 8, I suspect that Bruce’s coin is probably the third type (Bramah 10b) with the numeral 7 towards the front of the numeral 8.

This can be confirmed if Bruce could check that his over-date matches my first picture, and then check EI of DEI to see if the small protrusions at the top of both letters are present on his coin as per my second picture.

If the above obverse ‘features’ match Bruce’s coin then let’s turn to the reverse and check to see if the B of BRITANNIAR and the E of DEF match my 3^rd and 4^th pictures.

If all these ‘features’ are identical then I think that we have a match for both the obverse and reverse dies.

If this is the case, and as I have now reached the 500Kb limit for this post,  I can post more pictures of my full obverse /reverse which show that the top colon dot after FID did exist on the original reverse die. Whilst I think I can see remnants of the top colon dot on Bruce’s piece, it must have somehow become less obvious / missing at a later date e.g., through wear or die fill. The other 3 sets of colon dots on my own coin also seem to be identically positioned to those on Bruce’s example i.e. by way of further confirmation that both these coins have been struck from the same die pairing.

Thanks Ian for detailed explanation, I will try to check later when back to home to see if match your findings.  For the missing dot in colon, I initially suspect whether there's any trace of tooling coz the area around is a bit darker. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Bruce

[Paddy]

10 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

The sharpness of the rim edge is often a good indicator. Also, Geo VI proofs usually have mirrored fields especially FDC examples like yours would be if a proof. However, it could just as easily be an early strike and thus have crisp details.

I think it is a proof then - it was the mirror-like surfaces that first caught my eye, although they never come through as well in the photos. The edge rim is also very sharp all round.

It will go into my limited collection labelled as "Proof".

 

[copper123]

If its curency its an exceptional one - I tend to think proof

[Bruce]

18 hours ago, alfnail said:

Looking at the pictures provided by Bruce, and noting that there are also 48/47 varieties with 7 in middle of bottom circle of numeral 8, and also at back of bottom circle of numeral 8, I suspect that Bruce’s coin is probably the third type (Bramah 10b) with the numeral 7 towards the front of the numeral 8.

This can be confirmed if Bruce could check that his over-date matches my first picture, and then check EI of DEI to see if the small protrusions at the top of both letters are present on his coin as per my second picture.

If the above obverse ‘features’ match Bruce’s coin then let’s turn to the reverse and check to see if the B of BRITANNIAR and the E of DEF match my 3^rd and 4^th pictures.

If all these ‘features’ are identical then I think that we have a match for both the obverse and reverse dies.

If this is the case, and as I have now reached the 500Kb limit for this post,  I can post more pictures of my full obverse /reverse which show that the top colon dot after FID did exist on the original reverse die. Whilst I think I can see remnants of the top colon dot on Bruce’s piece, it must have somehow become less obvious / missing at a later date e.g., through wear or die fill. The other 3 sets of colon dots on my own coin also seem to be identically positioned to those on Bruce’s example i.e. by way of further confirmation that both these coins have been struck from the same die pairing.

After working for a full day, I can have a look at my coin again😆. 

And yes Ian, it seems match all your descriptions.  The 1848/7 overdate is with 7 towards the front of 8; D"EI" are with protrusions; "B"RIT and D"E"F both are similar to your photos.  I have a close-up look to the FID":" again, and suspect the circle is the place where the upper dot is missing (sorry for poor quality photo).  Is it where the dot should be taken place in your specimen?

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Bruce

[alfnail]

51 minutes ago, Bruce said:

Is it where the dot should be taken place in your specimen?

Hi Bruce, good you were able to confirm.

Yes, top FID dot does match location on my own piece, as do all other 3 sets of colon dots (see full reverse picture).

I have also taken a digital microscope shot of the top FID dot; and can now see that even on my coin it is a little weaker / flatter than usual.