More Pennies

[1949threepence]

6 hours ago, terrysoldpennies said:

The jury's still out on the 1897 Dot . it was at first thought to be a identification marker , but its now thought to be the result of an indentation made on the top of the die , thereby giving a neat full stop like appearance .  As to the Vigtoria Richard doesn't show this close up picture on his site , and as you can see the G looks far to neat in shape to be the result of a die crack, so I would favour the over stamped G made in error as the most likely cause , as the font punch used it could have come from dies used on different denominations or from a foreign coin type being produced at the mint.

 

It is, but I think my theory is a possibility. Although the raised dot is in a place that doesn't suggest it was put there intentionally, who knows? There may be all manner of reasons why. Anyway compare and contrast the dot with the colon dots on this 1897. They are identical:-

 

[RLC35]

2 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

Please- a pic of the round dot one...that will rather help this thread!

It is really hard to get a decent pic thru a slab, but here is the round dot on the 1946.....

[blakeyboy]

So it did evolve.....!

[secret santa]

No, it's in a different place ! Compare the dot position against the teeth. The circular dot above is nearer to the E.

Edited December 7, 2019 by secret santa
Correction.

[1949threepence]

13 minutes ago, secret santa said:

No, it's in a different place ! Compare the dot position against the teeth. The circular dot above is nearer to the E.

That it is.

So are we looking at two separate phenomena (for want of a better word)?

[RLC35]

16 minutes ago, secret santa said:

No, it's in a different place ! Compare the dot position against the teeth. The circular dot above is nearer to the E.

You are right Richard. The dot is even with the 3rd tooth, and the apostrophe is even with the 4th tooth.

[RLC35]

1 minute ago, RLC35 said:

You are right Richard. The dot is even with the 3rd tooth, and the apostrophe is even with the 4th tooth.

I just checked my 1946 with the apostrophe, and it is just like Richard's picture.

 

[1949threepence]

17 minutes ago, RLC35 said:

I just checked my 1946 with the apostrophe, and it is just like Richard's picture.

 

Mine too, Bob. *Adjacent to the 4th tooth after the E, whereas the dot on the pic above is adjacent to the 3rd tooth after.  

ETA * which you'd already said yourself in the post before the one I quoted..

Edited December 7, 2019 by 1949threepence

[blakeyboy]

ooh.....the dot thickens....

[terrysoldpennies]

I have a few of what you would call dot / comer pennies . and in most cases they are never perfectly round as is the case with the 1897 , and I think this is because they were caused by a crack in the die having small pieces braking away , and then the sharp edges smoothing and rounding off.  Though in the case of the 1897 it might be that a sharp pointed object was dropped onto the face of the die, which could leave a cleaner round dot.    Below is an unlisted 1934 penny with an extra dot, caused I think by a die crack.

[secret santa]

To me, the concepts of a raised dot (caused by a circular "dent" in the die) and a die crack don't go together. I can't see how a die crack could lead to a clean dot. Far more likely that a "particle" found its way onto the surface of the heated and softened working die while it was being created and produced the indentation ?

[alfnail]

Round dot with die crack.....but which was there first?

[Bernie]

The round "Dot" phenomena was investigated when it occurred on Australian bronze coins. It was concluded that the round dots were produced from dies that had rust pockets produced by water  droplets. 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Bernie

[shane carew]

17 hours ago, RLC35 said:

Here is a 1870 I sold a few years back...it is definitely a round dot!

Very neat dot and very rare too. There is a similar dot 1875 small penny too where the dot is on the obverse next to the I of Victoria. On that note let's not to forget the legendary 1875 large date cannon ball. 

[Iannich48]

And also this 1859 penny, with extra dot above colon. 

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, shane carew said:

Very neat dot and very rare too. There is a similar dot 1875 small penny too where the dot is on the obverse next to the I of Victoria. On that note let's not to forget the legendary 1875 large date cannon ball. 

Indeed. Here is a specimen:-

 

 

[Chingford]

[Chingford]

[Chingford]

CP1854 

[jelida]

You know those pennies we find occasionally with missing colon dots? Perhaps they fell off and got stuck somewhere else! 🤪

Jerry

[secret santa]

I'm getting spots before my eyes.

[alfnail]

One of the more interesting dot pennies I think is the 1853 Obverse with a small dot between the I and A of GRATIA.

This exact same 'italic 5' obverse has been found paired with both a Plain Trident and an Ornamental Trident reverse.

Think has been discussed a couple of times before on the forum, for example Page 18 of 'Penny Acquisition of the week'.....scrolling down past half way

 

 

 

 

[1949threepence]

Could send you dotty....although I'm carrying on whatever, full stop.

[blakeyboy]

I totally agree. Period.

[DaveG38]

My 1967 dot on trident penny is feeling quite left out and unloved.