More Pennies

[secret santa]

33 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Sept 1976 Coin Monthly article, "Further Varieties of the 1902 Penny" by A R Alexander and A M Lisk.

Anyone got a copy ?

[secret santa]

Changing the subject, I "swapped" collection websites today with Kevin Booth who has now put his impressive penny collection up onto a website and is happy that I share its URL with Forum members.

it's Kevin's penny collection

 

 

 

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Anyone got a copy ?

Yes yes. I've photographed all three pages as best I can, but copying pages is not the easiest task in the world. So apologies for their lack of perfection. They are readable though. Can't see much about a wavy 2, but the article is very interesting and useful.

 

[Peckris 2]

4 hours ago, Cliff said:

AardHawk made a posting Apr 2008 in which he drew attention to a Sept 1976 Coin Monthly article, "Further Varieties of the 1902 Penny" by A R Alexander and A M Lisk. Whilst the article does not specifically mention "wavy 2s",  it does go into some depth regarding Shape of 2 and pointings, suggesting at least 13 varieties. Worth a look and a consideration I think. 

That's gone the same way as the even earlier article pointing out many "varieties" of 1907 penny based on the tail of the 7! Now (deservedly) vanished without trace.

[secret santa]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I've photographed all three pages

Thanks Mike and thanks also to Cliff Davies who mailed me scans of the 3 pages.

[Michael-Roo]

 

A R Alexander.

Rev. Edward Casaubon reborn?…...

[Paddy]

I wonder if A R Alexander was the priest who helped my early interest in coins at school? He was Father Andrew (Alexander) and he had an extensive collection of British coins. He was always happy to help us boys with identification and grading of coins. Also smoked Balkan Sobranie in a pipe, which was very impressive to a 12 year-old.

He was one of the good priests at the school. (Don't ask about the bad ones.) He died only a couple of years ago having spent the previous 20 years in a rest home for priest in the school grounds. I kept meaning to arrange to go to see him, but now it is too late.

 

[AardHawk]

10 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

That's gone the same way as the even earlier article pointing out many "varieties" of 1907 penny based on the tail of the 7! Now (deservedly) vanished without trace.

There you go Peck

 

I do like the comments by three premier coin collectors below

Edited July 30, 2020 by AardHawk

[VickySilver]

Yikes, micro-varietals on the rampage in this column! The good thing is something for everybody & don't have to be exhaustive....

[alfnail]

17 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes yes. I've photographed all three pages as best I can, but copying pages is not the easiest task in the world. So apologies for their lack of perfection. They are readable though. Can't see much about a wavy 2, but the article is very interesting and useful.

Interesting that he has missed probably the most interesting variant, i.e. with the bar in the zero, as per image below.

I guess that's understandable if you only have a small sample of 27 coins though.

[Rob]

Is that not just a chipped die?

[alfnail]

There's also a 1902 low tide variety with the bar in the zero and an inverted wavy 2.

 

[Rob]

Inverted 2? Picture? Never heard of it.

How is that one explained? At that level of divergence from the norm, wavy or not is irrelevant.

[Paddy]

5 hours ago, AardHawk said:

Ah, well that confirms it was Father Andrew I think as the school was in Weybridge!

 

[1949threepence]

2 hours ago, alfnail said:

Interesting that he has missed probably the most interesting variant, i.e. with the bar in the zero, as per image below.

I guess that's understandable if you only have a small sample of 27 coins though.

Never seen that variant before, Ian. Thanks for the pic. 

[Peckris 2]

8 hours ago, alfnail said:

There's also a 1902 low tide variety with the bar in the zero and an inverted wavy 2.

 

Wow. That's an AMAZING variety. Did the hand originally have 5 fingers? Is the 6th one re-engraved? The hologram effect of the hand appearing to move is just awesome.

Is it yours? Would you consider selling?

[Peckris 2]

@AardHawk - thanks for posting that. I hadn't seen that follow-up article. I did see the original article - with pictures - on 1907 pennies. I remember they were all fairly worn coins and that I wasn't that impressed even back then. However an interesting letter by EB McKenzie which puts it all in context. Though it has to be said that the absence of those micro-varieties in all price guides does rather indicate the level of interest in them.

[Martinminerva]

I see this 1881H F103 sold recently on eBay for an astonishing sum, albeit a very rare coin, and no doubt a real surprise and pleasure for the seller who can't have known. Anyone here buy it?? If we go by Richard's rare penny website, it would appear to be the eighth known?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1881-H-Great-Britain-One-1-Penny-1881H-Mark-H-for-Heaton-Mint-1d-/114312844580?hash=item1a9d939524%3Ag%3Ah7MAAOSwOKpfFLWg&nma=true&si=HsvO6lNGBPRb%2BAmvjfay%2BxU5S9A%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Just shows that the rarities are still out there!

Edited July 31, 2020 by Martinminerva

[AardHawk]

17 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Though it has to be said that the absence of those micro-varieties in all price guides does rather indicate the level of interest in them.

Just out of interest Father Andrew had already addressed this issue, and he of course used the correct terminology, minor varieties. 

 

[secret santa]

2 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

If we go by Richard's rare penny website, it would appear to be the eighth known?

Added - thanks for the heads up. Price seems spot on to me.

[1949threepence]

3 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

I see this 1881H F103 sold recently on eBay for an astonishing sum, albeit a very rare coin, and no doubt a real surprise and pleasure for the seller who can't have known. Anyone here buy it?? If we go by Richard's rare penny website, it would appear to be the eighth known?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1881-H-Great-Britain-One-1-Penny-1881H-Mark-H-for-Heaton-Mint-1d-/114312844580?hash=item1a9d939524%3Ag%3Ah7MAAOSwOKpfFLWg&nma=true&si=HsvO6lNGBPRb%2BAmvjfay%2BxU5S9A%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Just shows that the rarities are still out there!

Wow, wish I'd seen it. I'd have been in for the kill on that one.

As Richard says, price is spot on. They're even rarer than the 1877 narrow date, but usually go for a lot less.  

The seller obviously didn't have a clue what it was. Just hope the buyer contacts him for next day tracked delivery, and doesn't rely on 87p economy delivery  

[Rob]

What does Gouby miss off the list of things to look for on obv. M because based on retouched incuse lines, I'm on a hiding to nothing when detail is the one thing that's missing?

[1949threepence]

32 minutes ago, Rob said:

What does Gouby miss off the list of things to look for on obv. M because based on retouched incuse lines, I'm on a hiding to nothing when detail is the one thing that's missing?

If you're querying how anyone would determine that it's a F103, as opposed to a Freeman 108?? there's a very easy way, which avoids studying worn incuse lines.

Gouby Obverse P, which you'd normally observe as the natural obverse for an 1881H, shows the Queen with a hooked nose. Gouby Obverse M shows a straight nose.  

Both Gouby and Freeman mention the different nose shapes, which is fairly obvious, even on a worn coin.

[Rob]

Thanks.

[Peckris 2]

"Just out of interest Father Andrew had already addressed this issue, and he of course used the correct terminology, minor varieties. "

Not sure of your point? Members here have used the term micro-varieties often enough that we all know what is meant. And I think you could in theory easily divide the world of varieties into 3 : major (e.g. H and KN), minor (e.g. 1953 obverses), and micro (e.g. the thickness of a worn 7). FWIW...