Don't You Hate It When.......

[rpeddie]

Don't you hate it when you buy a coin

but after numerous attempts to contact the seller asking for a week or so to transfer and withdraw funds(was £200 short) it is

resisted without replying to my messages and opens up unpaid case

kick in the nads but at least well least i know i'm going in the right direction with this whole coin collecting malarky

[brg5658]

The eBay seller Centsles is renowned in the States for 1) never replying to private messages, 2) shipping coins slower than they could be walked to most destinations, and 3) selling cleaned/self-slabbed junk with only the occasional gem buried among the pedestrian.

I have purchased 2 coins from that seller in the past 5 years -- the most recent took nearly a month to arrive, but it was a choice and rarely seen UNC Canadian provincial token. Mind you, Priority shipping to me from him takes 2 business days.

Best of luck.

[Rob]

Centisles has long been recognised as one to avoid. He could save time and increase his profits by not self-slabbing and p***ing off the customer when they receive the goods in question which will never be the grade assigned on the label by most peoples' standards

[Peter]

I've bought coins from him over the years.

Maybe I'm lucky but have been very happy with the coins / price.

They say there is nothing such as bad publicity.I still do a search on his coins when at a loose end.

[RLC35]

Centisles has long been recognised as one to avoid. He could save time and increase his profits by not self-slabbing and p***ing off the customer when they receive the goods in question which will never be the grade assigned on the label by most peoples' standards

Rob, you are right about Centlsles. I have never seen one of his coins (until now) that he didn't slab himself, and overgrade by at least one grade! With that said...this coin was slabbed by NGC...he must have bought it that way! Ha,Ha. Years ago, I bought a slabbed coin off of him, and when I received it, the coin was way over graded. I would never buy anything off of him, regardless of who slabbed it!

[azda]

He would'nt get away with relisting it here in Germany. Once the bidder has won the item the item becomes rightfully yours EVEN if you still have'nt paid for it. I had an instance when selling my old Alfa Romeo car, it had seen better days and i advised any potential bidder to come and check it before bidding etc.

Anyway it eventually sold for 1650 euros and the guy came along the following week and started picking it apart with everything i'd already mentioned in the ebay text. He went away without paying and being an arrogant p***k as a lot of them are.

Next day there was an email with the Cars faults and a List of what it needed to put straight and prices, he said he'd give us 500 euros for it and i basically told him to go and (insert word here) himself. Anyway a few days later comes a lawyers letter Stating similar, so we had to employ a lawyer to Counter his letter, he was basically trying to BS us and get the car for peanuts so he could strip the car and sell the parts as spares. We were'nt allowed to List it until he agreed that he did'nt want it even though he had'nt paid.

Our lawyer said that suing people on ebay had become big business and was a bigger Problem in Germany than it was in The USA and they sue at the drop of a hat

[brg5658]

Centisles has long been recognised as one to avoid. He could save time and increase his profits by not self-slabbing and p***ing off the customer when they receive the goods in question which will never be the grade assigned on the label by most peoples' standards

Rob, you are right about Centlsles. I have never seen one of his coins (until now) that he didn't slab himself, and overgrade by at least one grade! With that said...this coin was slabbed by NGC...he must have bought it that way! Ha,Ha. Years ago, I bought a slabbed coin off of him, and when I received it, the coin was way over graded. I would never buy anything off of him, regardless of who slabbed it!

Centsles, at any given time usually has around 500-1000 items up for auction. Of those, anywhere from a couple to maybe 10% may be graded coins by PCGS or NGC (the two more respected USA TPGs). And, even among those very few (reputably slabbed) coins, the images are usually so horrendous (possibly purposefully so) that you must be very, very careful. The moral of the story being, if you systematically dismiss all items from a particular source in a draconian way, you may miss out on coins that you would never otherwise encounter.

The most recent item I purchased from him was a very difficult Canadian Provincial token, quite common in grades of EF or lower, but next to impossible in UNC. It is a common Courteau variety (#186, listed as R1). But, I promise, it's not an R1 in this grade!

[Peter]

What a gem.

[davidrj]

Some nice copper/bronze on here of late

[Coinery]

Staggering, truly welcome aboard!

[VickySilver]

There can be a kind of reverse psychology at play with sellers such as Centsles. He is rejected by many but will tell you on occasion he has a very nice bit. About one year ago, I got a very rare Panama pattern for about 1/2 it's expected sale price or less. He did grade it Proof 68 and it slabbed out by PCGS as "64" which was about right in my book, if even a bit harsh. I bought a more common Vicky YH halfpenny at a good price previously as well.

Interestingly, and possibly more damning is that I believe the seller WON a PCGS grading contest some years ago, so presumably knows what he is doing with his overgrading...

[azda]

Vicky, PCGS can't grade either

[scottishmoney]

Vicky, PCGS can't grade either

The point is - buy and collect what you like and what has good eye appeal. Be knowledgeable about what you collect. Don't let some miscreant fool in a windowless sterile environment decide what you should like.

[VickySilver]

Well, my point was that he won THEIR (PCGS) contest for grading…LOL.

[brg5658]

Vicky, PCGS can't grade either

Isn't that axe you're grinding sharp yet?

[Coinery]

Oh, boy!

[brg5658]

Oh, boy!

Sorry, it gets a little old hearing the same old thing. PCGS and NGC grade coins using the USA Sheldon 70-point scale. The letters and numbers they put on coins will not match the European/UK grading scale. For all intents and purposes there is a reasonable cross-walk between the two scales, but they will never be perfectly the same. We get that, and it's not that difficult to move beyond that.

As an American collector, I understand that a UK graded gEF might "equate" to a USA graded MS62/63. That doesn't bother me. It's like complaining about different spelling of words in "Queen's English" versus American English. The two languages are still readily understood on both sides of the "pond", and it is what it is. The constant rumbling and aggressive behavio(u)r doesn't really serve any constructive purpose.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a fan-boy of NGC or PCGS, but I take them for what they are. They have slabbed a lot of nice coins, and if I were to completely ignore coins in their "plastic tombs" then I would be doing myself a disservice as a serious collector. I also purchase plenty of raw coins and tokens, and know how to grade for myself. Adapt and survive -- whining about the "good ol'days" isn't terribly effective.

[goomolique]

[VickySilver]

My issue with them, and I am overall Neutral with respect to the major TPGs is that they are INCONSISTENT. I won' t elaborate except by PM but I have seen some really terrible inconsistent grading - I don' t usually however find too many problems with attribution of later milled with the possible exception of examples like the 1850/46 (sic) shilling that is most surely IMO 50/49. I think they have become a bit imaginative with the 1887-1893 gold two and five pound coins in MS and PF as well.

I find worst of all the up and down grading of matte proofs 1902-1965, including the Churchill satin piece.

[azda]

Vicky, PCGS can't grade either

Isn't that axe you're grinding sharp yet?

Not when it comes to American TPGs grading British coins, no

[azda]

Oh, boy!

Sorry, it gets a little old hearing the same old thing. PCGS and NGC grade coins using the USA Sheldon 70-point scale. The letters and numbers they put on coins will not match the European/UK grading scale. For all intents and purposes there is a reasonable cross-walk between the two scales, but they will never be perfectly the same. We get that, and it's not that difficult to move beyond that.

As an American collector, I understand that a UK graded gEF might "equate" to a USA graded MS62/63. That doesn't bother me. It's like complaining about different spelling of words in "Queen's English" versus American English. The two languages are still readily understood on both sides of the "pond", and it is what it is. The constant rumbling and aggressive behavio(u)r doesn't really serve any constructive purpose.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a fan-boy of NGC or PCGS, but I take them for what they are. They have slabbed a lot of nice coins, and if I were to completely ignore coins in their "plastic tombs" then I would be doing myself a disservice as a serious collector. I also purchase plenty of raw coins and tokens, and know how to grade for myself. Adapt and survive -- whining about the "good ol'days" isn't terribly effective.

The fact that american buyers buy TPG slabbed British coins at vastly inflated prices says to me that you should keep squandering your cash like you do because its behind an NGC or PCGS slab, other more sensible British coin buyers would buy the same coin unslabbed for quite a few 100 dollars less, those are the savvy buyers. So you go ahead and buy those slabbed ones, its up to you how you choose to blow your money

As Vicky stated, they are far to inconsistent

Edited November 16, 2013 by azda

[Accumulator]

Oh, boy!

Sorry, it gets a little old hearing the same old thing. PCGS and NGC grade coins using the USA Sheldon 70-point scale. The letters and numbers they put on coins will not match the European/UK grading scale. For all intents and purposes there is a reasonable cross-walk between the two scales, but they will never be perfectly the same. We get that, and it's not that difficult to move beyond that.

As an American collector, I understand that a UK graded gEF might "equate" to a USA graded MS62/63. That doesn't bother me. It's like complaining about different spelling of words in "Queen's English" versus American English. The two languages are still readily understood on both sides of the "pond", and it is what it is. The constant rumbling and aggressive behavio(u)r doesn't really serve any constructive purpose.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a fan-boy of NGC or PCGS, but I take them for what they are. They have slabbed a lot of nice coins, and if I were to completely ignore coins in their "plastic tombs" then I would be doing myself a disservice as a serious collector. I also purchase plenty of raw coins and tokens, and know how to grade for myself. Adapt and survive -- whining about the "good ol'days" isn't terribly effective.

The fact that american buyers buy TPG slabbed British coins at vastly inflated prices says to me that you should keep squandering your cash like you do because its behind an NGC or PCGS slab, other more sensible British coin buyers would buy the same coin unslabbed for quite a few 100 dollars less, those are the savvy buyers. So you go ahead and buy those slabbed ones, its up to you how you choose to blow your money

As Vicky stated, they are far to inconsistent

It sounds like we're actually all in agreement!

Whether a coin is slabbed or not, any buyer should view the coin itself and make his/her evaluation of the true variety and grade. They should purchase on this basis alone.

The vagaries of the TPGs, coupled with the fact that some buyers don't check the above, ensure there are plenty of opportunities for bargains, whether from US or UK sources.

Personally, it very much suits that rarer Freeman penny varieties can occasionally be found hiding in more generically labelled slabs. Long may it continue!

[scottishmoney]

I love finding Brit hammered in these TPG holders graded MS whatever the $#!+ where I can clearly see very light circulation wear.