W&w Grading

[Coinery]

And my mother always told me I was a sixpence short, so stop calling me shilling!

[Peckris]

Hopefully Stuart is'nt resting on his laurels either as i've taken a shine to a Lizzie to

For fffff...

Bugger!

Perhaps the 4 of us should email our top bids to a 3rd party, and the highest genuine bid goes forth, whilst the others bow gracefully out...no point in the winning bidder paying over the odds, eh?

I'm interested in 2 of the lizzies - one to keep, one to sell!

That, technically, is called a 'ring' and afaik it's illegal!

[VickySilver]

Oh, and of course it never happens in real life - not seen too many locked up recently.

[Peckris]

Oh, and of course it never happens in real life - not seen too many locked up recently.

Proving it is the difficult part. Let's say (hypothetically of course) a tiny group of dealer/collectors met up before an auction, at the premises of one of said dealers, and discuss the sale.

(not illegal)

they compare notes as to the lots

(not illegal)

they tell each other what they are particularly interested in and will probably bid on

(not illegal)

Fred says to Jim "We're both after Lots 21 and 22. You seem more interested in 22 while I'm more interested in 21. Tell you what, let's each not bid against the other?"

(technically a grey area, but who's going to know?)

[Coinery]

Hopefully Stuart is'nt resting on his laurels either as i've taken a shine to a Lizzie to

For fffff...

Bugger!

Perhaps the 4 of us should email our top bids to a 3rd party, and the highest genuine bid goes forth, whilst the others bow gracefully out...no point in the winning bidder paying over the odds, eh?

I'm interested in 2 of the lizzies - one to keep, one to sell!

That, technically, is called a 'ring' and afaik it's illegal!

'My precious!'

Talking of which, Gollum never did return to join us!

[TomGoodheart]

That, technically, is called a 'ring' and afaik it's illegal!

Bother. So am I allowed just to tell everyone that they mustn't bid on any Charles I shillings ever again instead?

[Rob]

Hopefully Stuart is'nt resting on his laurels either as i've taken a shine to a Lizzie to

For fffff...

Bugger!

Perhaps the 4 of us should email our top bids to a 3rd party, and the highest genuine bid goes forth, whilst the others bow gracefully out...no point in the winning bidder paying over the odds, eh?

I'm interested in 2 of the lizzies - one to keep, one to sell!

That, technically, is called a 'ring' and afaik it's illegal!

The only difference being of course that the few people involved have no control over the other 6 or 7 billion people on the planet, whereas a single shill bidder sets an artificially higher level for the same 6 or 7 billion. It is only effective to the detriment of the seller if those few are the only people interested in bidding on the coin, which is an unlikely scenario. Equally, the pot of available funds is finite, so more money spent by someone on a coin means less is available on the next lot. Is one seller whose lot number allocated is higher than another being discriminated against?

[Peter]

You can always bluff,double bluff and treble bluff each other & still get skinned alive.

It is best to tap into the auctioneer.

[azda]

Sturat is safe, my Head has been turned in another direction. Rob and Tom, you both should talk because i'm definately not after the same as you both and might even leave it altogether as Richard has shown me something else plus i need a few beans for my visitation to the motherland in November.

[Peckris]

That, technically, is called a 'ring' and afaik it's illegal!

Bother. So am I allowed just to tell everyone that they mustn't bid on any Charles I shillings ever again instead?

I hear and I obey

[Peter]

I wonder how many times we all bid against each other on ebay?

[azda]

I wonder how many times we all bid against each other on ebay?

I often wonder myself how often we have bidded against each other in various auctions. Whats your ebay name Peter? You can PM if you don't wish to divulge

[Coinery]

1) Sturat is safe, my Head has been turned in another direction.

2) Richard has shown me something else...

1) praise be to God!

2) you old fox, TG, what a manoeuvre, what a move!

[Coinery]

I wonder how many times we all bid against each other on ebay?

I often wonder myself how often we have bidded against each other in various auctions. Whats your ebay name Peter? You can PM if you don't wish to divulge

Most of us snipe though, don't we? So knowing user names won't help?????

[Peckris]

I wonder how many times we all bid against each other on ebay?

I often wonder myself how often we have bidded against each other in various auctions. Whats your ebay name Peter? You can PM if you don't wish to divulge

Most of us snipe though, don't we? So knowing user names won't help?????

Nope. If I want the coin I'm there, 7 seconds to go...

[Paulus]

I wonder how many times we all bid against each other on ebay?

I often wonder myself how often we have bidded against each other in various auctions. Whats your ebay name Peter? You can PM if you don't wish to divulge

Most of us snipe though, don't we? So knowing user names won't help?????

Nope. If I want the coin I'm there, 7 seconds to go...

Isn't that what sniping is? You don't have to use a sniping tool!

[TomGoodheart]

That, technically, is called a 'ring' and afaik it's illegal!

Bother. So am I allowed just to tell everyone that they mustn't bid on any Charles I shillings ever again instead?

I hear and I obey

Well, I appreciate the gesture. Though as you don't actually collected hammered coins in the first place ....

1) Sturat is safe, my Head has been turned in another direction.

2) Richard has shown me something else...

1) praise be to God!

2) you old fox, TG, what a manoeuvre, what a move!

Purely unintentional I assure you Stuart!

Though an interesting strategy for future reference ...

[ski]

Fred says to Jim "We're both after Lots 21 and 22. You seem more interested in 22 while I'm more interested in 21. Tell you what, let's each not bid against the other?"

(technically a grey area, but who's going to know?)

this is like one of those old gce questions.

my answer would be fred and jim......... and if that aint right its 37 miles in 45 minutes

[Coinery]

It's true and, illegal or not, I'm as straight as anyone goes, but I'm not a fool or a mug! They'd have to slap the irons on me because, if I'm in the Fred and Jim situation, I'm not going to stupidly say, let the best man win, that flies in the face of intelligence to me!

Where on earth in life would you do such a thing?

Two men either side of a collapsing wall, pushing like crazy to keep it balanced! 'Hello over there? If you only push just a little bit, I won't have to push quite as hard! We might actually manage to keep this wall up together until someone else comes to help!'

[Peckris]

Nope. If I want the coin I'm there, 7 seconds to go...

Isn't that what sniping is? You don't have to use a sniping tool!

Fair enough - I'm a sniper too then. [whine of bullet overhead]

Fred says to Jim "We're both after Lots 21 and 22. You seem more interested in 22 while I'm more interested in 21. Tell you what, let's each not bid against the other?"

(technically a grey area, but who's going to know?)

this is like one of those old gce questions.

my answer would be fred and jim......... and if that aint right its 37 miles in 45 minutes

Wrong - the answer is "third party with more money than sense waltzes in and gets both lots"

It's true and, illegal or not, I'm as straight as anyone goes, but I'm not a fool or a mug! They'd have to slap the irons on me because, if I'm in the Fred and Jim situation, I'm not going to stupidly say, let the best man win, that flies in the face of intelligence to me!

Where on earth in life would you do such a thing?

Two men either side of a collapsing wall, pushing like crazy to keep it balanced! 'Hello over there? If you only push just a little bit, I won't have to push quite as hard! We might actually manage to keep this wall up together until someone else comes to help!'

True, true! But it's still technically illegal, like copying a DVD you bought to your own computer

[Coinery]

Nope. If I want the coin I'm there, 7 seconds to go...

Isn't that what sniping is? You don't have to use a sniping tool!

Fair enough - I'm a sniper too then. [whine of bullet overhead]

Fred says to Jim "We're both after Lots 21 and 22. You seem more interested in 22 while I'm more interested in 21. Tell you what, let's each not bid against the other?"

(technically a grey area, but who's going to know?)

this is like one of those old gce questions.

my answer would be fred and jim......... and if that aint right its 37 miles in 45 minutes

Wrong - the answer is "third party with more money than sense waltzes in and gets both lots"

It's true and, illegal or not, I'm as straight as anyone goes, but I'm not a fool or a mug! They'd have to slap the irons on me because, if I'm in the Fred and Jim situation, I'm not going to stupidly say, let the best man win, that flies in the face of intelligence to me!

Where on earth in life would you do such a thing?

Two men either side of a collapsing wall, pushing like crazy to keep it balanced! 'Hello over there? If you only push just a little bit, I won't have to push quite as hard! We might actually manage to keep this wall up together until someone else comes to help!'

True, true! But it's still technically illegal, like copying a DVD you bought to your own computer

But I can totally understand that! What I can't get my head around is paying more for something out of stupidity! And even more so that it's illegal to use your grey matter in such instances!

It would be equivilent to me saying 'you should go to a particular website, so you can buy your washing machine cheaper there', and some town councillor having the right to penalise me for directing funds to another district!

I'd feel more wrong, ethically speaking, if I knew someone was going to bid £1000 for an item, and I knew I only had £950 in my pocket to bid with, but bid anyway...that kind of technically crosses over into shill bidding doesn't it?

The law would have to saysomething like 'it's illegal to talk to your buddy about coins in the lead up to any given auction, just in case you should accidentally stumble across information about your shared hobby/interest which forces you into an impossible situation of either inadvertently ringing or shilling the auction'!

[ski]

like copying a DVD you bought to your own computer

i didnt know that...how does that compare with me loading a cd into my itunes library i wonder?

i regularly talk with my local coin dealer about lots in up and coming auctions , no matter how much i talk to him, im never going to beat him if he has a sell-onto client who wants that piece.....at any price.

be a shame when big bro stops us from talking to each other on our hobby and our potential purchases.

[NRP]

If I have a client who tells me he is interested in a particular lot and he tells me has more than I have to bid then I will stay away from the lot, I don't want him to have to pay top whack just for the sake of it!!! Grey area indeed how anyone could ever prove I have not bid on that particular lot for that reason would be pretty hard!! If I read on here that some of you guys were particularly interested in a lot and I knew you would pay more I would stay away, I don't want you to have to pay more for the sake of it!!! The only winners are the auction houses and at 24% buyers commission plus what they charge the seller they have become too greedy!!!

[Peckris]

like copying a DVD you bought to your own computer

i didnt know that...how does that compare with me loading a cd into my itunes library i wonder?

i regularly talk with my local coin dealer about lots in up and coming auctions , no matter how much i talk to him, im never going to beat him if he has a sell-onto client who wants that piece.....at any price.

be a shame when big bro stops us from talking to each other on our hobby and our potential purchases.

I think that's also a grey area, but as the record company already ripped you off handsomely for the cost of the CD (peanuts to produce), and as they don't sell downloads by and large, they're not going to get their knickers in a twist over you 'ripping' it to iTunes.

[Coinery]

So, anyone ever submitted bids at W&W online? What's the timescales on confirmation of successful bids, I'm guessing there isn't a 'prices realised' list to refer to any earlier than being contacted?